Ellwood City, Pa Sound Off Forum, Community Message Board

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Community Sound Off

Submit Community Comments -- Read Political Forum (06)

2/8/12 (01)
Remember when the borough Manager wanted to raise taxes in Ellwood. If he is so concerned about money for the borough, He and the Code people should take some time to tour our town and start imposing fines on ALL owners that haven't done anything to their buildings. Just by starting on Lawrence Ave. from 13th St. to 4th St. should bring enough money to help out the borough for years. The other day as I was walking along Bell Ave. the side walk along side the Chamber of Commerce is disgraceful and in need of repairs.
Just one example of who you are, and I could name many more but I don't want to sit here all day typing. There are buildings on Lawrence Ave. that have been deteriorating for at least 10 to 15 years and nothing is being done about it. When you have a Town that looks like trash, all it will do is attract more trash.

2/8/12 (02)
To 2/7/12(04) First of all, thank God that you were able to overcome your addiction. You were blessed in your outcome. Doesn't it seem that you are the exception to the rule though? How many of your drug-using friends have had the same success? How many are dead? I don't know if you were shooting up the opiates. Maybe not, if you were able to break the habit without being locked up for some time. Is it really a disease for everyone? How about the kids who just want to get high with their drug-using buddies and then suddenly find themselves dope sick. I have two drug addict friends who refuse to let anyone tell them in counseling classes that it is a disease. It started as a recreation for them that turned into the desire to feel better and better and better and then dope sick when they tried to stop. I guess every one has their story. I just know that a couple of friends would have overdosed by now if they had not been put away in jail for a while to finally get the distance from the drugs they needed. And they will swear to you that if that didn't happen they would be dead. And they would swear to you that the outpatient classes and rehab do absolutely nothing but make you wanna go out and get high from all the talk about it, and give you your best contacts on the street. I am not sure how long it took you to quit or what steps you had to take exactly, but I bet if your butt was in jail for a year you might have been able to quit sooner. It would be interesting to hear what crimes you committed along the way and the years of absolute heartbreak and disgust you caused your family and others for YEARS before you were able to stop. I think it is bull to make us clean hard-working members of society to put up with crime and a bunch of misery for God knows how long becasue you think drug addicts should be given 20 chances at rehab to try to quit. To hell with that crap. Lock them the heck up!! I am betting you should have been locked up way long before you actually quit drug use (if you are even being honest about being clean). The golden rule with drug addicts: NEVER BELIEVE ONE WORD THEY SAY. ASSUME EVERYTHING OUT OF THEIR MOUTH IS LIES. Make them PROVE otherwise or you will be used, abused, robbed, cheated, betrayed (and any other low-life thing you can imagine could happen to you).

2/8/12 (03)
Re: 2/7/12 (04)
I applaud you for a very interesting post and for the fact that you've been clean for so long. Tough to do/stay these days, it seems.

I believe that using drugs is a choice. And yes, sometimes, many times it's because of how someone feels about themselves. But just as many times I believe it's because someone ELSE says "Hey, I found something that'll give you a real rush" and people get sucked into the black hole.

But regardless, you're post was very well written. Thanks for sharing with us.

2/8/12 (04)
In response to 02/07/12 (04)
You are forgetting something very important. A lot of addicts getting treatment have learned to use the system. They have learned how to get high with combinations of drugs and pills supplied by treatment centers and learned how to get the most for reimbursements to get to those treatment centers...all fraudulent and all a tremendous burden upon the taxpayers. Millions are spent each month, just in western PA to support these addicts. People have choices, they are taught when they are very young what drugs will do to them and how easily they will become addicted. Maybe it's time we should start preaching that if you choose to experiment with drugs, the burden will fall on you and you alone - no help from taxpayers!

2/8/12 (05)
RE: 2/7/12 (04) - I am so sick of things never being anybody's fault. NO ONE takes responsibility for their own actions anymore. "It's a disease, these people are sick." That's just something you tell addicts to make them feel better about themselves. At some point in the past, they made a conscious CHOICE to do drugs, thus beginning their addiction. While it is sad, it was their own actions that led them there to begin with. Send them to jail. The problem with society today is that there are no longer consequences for people's actions. For being a drug and alcohol counselor, you sure sound a lot like an enabler to me.

2/8/12 (06)
Been thru downtown beaver Falls lately? Isn't Ellwood city starting to resemble that blight? been thru Beaver lately? Most buildings and retail outlets active and bustling. That place looks like a small town you could live and shop in. No dilapidated or deteriorated buildings or homes. Wanna bet that their taxes are higher than ours?? Wannna bet that they enforce their codes and ordinances? Wanna bet you might get fined for loitering? Just wundrin, why can't the meter man carry a big litter bag so that he could keep the downtown litterfree between the times he's writing tickets. Most of the towns that seem to be progressing through this recession DON'T HAVE PARKING METERS. Including Beaver. This borough government seems intent on stepping over dollars to collect parking meter nickles. Ellwood on the cheap, giving preference to friends and cronies.

2/8/12 (07)
I just bought a nice dining room set at the new second hand shop on Lawrence Avenue. My husband and I were very impressed with their merchandise and they were very friendly and helpful. I will definately go back in the future. I encourage everyone to go in and take a look around.

2/8/12 (08)
RE: 2/7/12 (04)

While your post is well written and your recovery is to be applauded, what ever happened to personal responsibility? Everyone has crappy days, and most people don't use that to justify using drugs.

Sorry, but I don't think that because you choose to do drugs I should have to buy you movie tickets or gift cards. For the most part, my tax money already pays for drug users to be on Welfare. It pays for their utilities. It pays for public transportation. It pays for their cell phones, which by the way I don't even have one. It pays for their food stamps. It pays for their incarceration. Virtually every part of their lives is covered by my tax money. I could support 5 children in Ethiopia for less.

Isn't that enough for someone whose biggest accomplishment on an average day is rolling a tight piece of paper???

Sorry, but being part of the roughly 50% of America that still pays the bills, I could care less if you see a movie in a theater when I haven't been able to justify wasting money on a trip to a theater in years.

In a time where very few folks are working, the economy is terrible and mortgages so far underwater you need scuba gear to find them.......The infinite wisdom of our town s to build a skate park, a stage, and give gifts to druggies. BRAVO ELLWOOD....BRAVO

Is that what I am supposed to have pride in?

2/8/12 (09)
Any ideas why there is not clearly marked intersecting streets with Lawrence Avenue? Was there ever signs for Fifth, Sixth, Seventh St, etc.? I had an out of town friend point this out to me when he was entering town on RT-351 from the turnpike and there did not appear to be streets marked for him to make his turn.

2/7/12 (01)
to 2/6/12(04) I agree with you. The Borough needs to get the Code Enforcement People in a vehicle, give property owners proper notice that there is going to be an inspection of their properties, and then drive around and let the fun begin. Cite everyone for violations and condemn properties that need to be condemned. Make the owners RESPONSIBLE, whether or not someone from Council or Code Enforcement went to highschool with them or otherwise are friends with them. JUST DO IT. Tear 'em down. It would be nicer to see some parking lots along Lawrence avennue than half the buildings there. Get tough. And if property owners cannot afford to correct problems get them to deed the properties over to the borough for demolition. Clean it up. WE need more public pressure on people who get away with just letting properties rot, especially on LAwrence.

2/7/12 (02)
Reg: 2/6/12/(7)
I agree with you. The pride in Ellwood is gone. Look at Lawrence Ave. It is a disgrace to drive down thru town. And they think making a stage will change it. The store fronts need cleaned up all the way down Lawrence Ave. It is a new generation people do not care about there home and property. We use to have to work outside cleaning our yard before we could go any where. The kids are lazy today.The pride is gone and drugs are in.

2/7/12 (03)
It makes me really mad that there was an armed robbery last night behind the emporium and there is no mention of this on ellwoodcity.org or ellwoodcityledger.com! This is insane. The people of Ellwood NEED to know that these things are going on.

Hmmm,let's see.

#1. The incident happened on a Friday.

#2. The incident was reported Saturday in the Ledger---front page.

What's your problem?

2/7/12 (04)
In regards to those of you posting about addiction, I am going to ask you to be open minded for a moment, and possibly read this post for what it is.

First, to qualify myself: I was a drug and alcohol addict for 15 years. My drugs of choice were opiates and alcohol. (Yes, alcohol IS a drug. Ask any addictions counselor) I stole from my family, hurt the ones I loved the most, and did almost everything on the lists of "sins" that I have seen listed on this site. I have been clean and sober now for nearly seven years. I have not broken the law in that time. I have been employed, paid taxes, volunteered in my community, and been, overall, a productive member of society. How does this happen? Read below:

First off, addiction/alcoholism is a disease. People that have it are sick. It is a disease that is characterized by a lack of self esteem, feeling of inadequacy, etc. You may not see that in an addict, because most overcompensate for their lack of self esteem with overconfidence, cockiness, and self-righteousness.

So, people with the disease of addiction suffer from low self-esteem. How should we treat that? What society does is treat us like we have a moral deficiency, treat us like outcasts. The attitudes toward addiction that I see on this site will only perpetuate the problem.

Let me explain the cycle of addiction in a simple fashion: I feel like crap, so I use drugs. I use drugs, so I feel like crap. I feel like crap, so I use drugs....etc. Addicts, in general, need to know that someone else has felt the way they feel, and was able to stop. That is what treatment does. Just because the addict in your family went to treatment once and it didn't work, doesn't mean treatment is a bad option. I personally know people who didn't stay clean until their 20th treatment, who now have decades of sobriety.

I can say, however, that putting sick people in jail together doesn't do any good whatsoever. (other than keeping them off of the streets for that period of time). I volunteered at a jail for a period of time helping addicts in jail to learn about 12 step fellowships, and found that jail just allows them to make new connections, learn new hustles, and new crimes to commit. There is a quote from the Johnny Depp movie "Blow", where he says "I walked into that prison with a bachelor's degree in marijuana, and walked out with a PH.D in cocaine." That movie is a true story, by the way.

I guess all that I am trying to say is that, these people that you look down on, they have a disease that they were born with, that they didn't want to have. Was there anyone in your third grade class that said "I wanna be a junkie when I grow up!" Please try to remember that they are sick and that they are in so much pain, spiritual and emotional pain. Just offer them your prayers. All of us in recovery are a result of someone's answered prayers. Thanks for reading.

--Anonymous

2/7/12 (05)

2/7/12 (06)
Re: 2/6/12 (03)
Do you simply come to EC.org to get on soundoff and complain about things, without even looking at their news? There was a story on the armed robbery clear as day on their main page Friday afternoon. Then, there was a story the next day in the Ledger. News can only come as quickly as the source giving it to them...chill! It's small town Ellwood City!

2/7/12 (07)

2/7/12 (08)
I would like to Thank the Police Officers for the woderful job they did during the recent salon robbery.. They were very comforting while at the same time working hard trying to find the person involved in comitting the crime... They worked fast and hard throughout the night ... Thanks Again

2/7/12 (09)
Another unbelievable crime in Ellwood City. Robbery at gun point, in the afternoon, on Beaver Ave.. Purse snatching, people getting beat up and now robbery at gun point. As I wrote, "Ellwood City gateway to danger".

2/6/12 (01)
It's the inconvenience and nonsense with the bags.

• Inconvenience? Do you not throw your trash into a bag in the first place?

I keep saying that I feel sorry for the elderly having to fuss with those stupid bags.

• Did you not read the letter from Valley? The elderly do not have to take the bags to the curb. Yup, read the letter. All ya have to do is call them, put your address on the list and they will pick up the yellow bag at your door.

You should just be able to take the bag you use inside, throw it in a can outside and take it to the curb.

• Do you realize how contradictory you are? First you complain about taking a bag to the curb then you suggest taking not only the bag but also a can! Sheesh!

2/6/12 (02)
It's that time of year again. Time to sign-up for Ellwood City Little Wolverines Cheerleading.

When : Saturday, February 18, 2012 -------9:00am - 11:00am
AND Friday, February 24, 2012 ------- 7:00pm-8:30pm

Where: Ellwood City Family Center - Upstairs

*These will be the only 2 sign-ups days. You must sign-up on one of these days or you will not be allowed to try-out.
**Please bring important info with you such as a valid email address (for communication), cell phone numbers and emergency contacts information.
***You may only sign-up your own child.

So grandparents or family friends may not bring a girl to register? Why is this? If the girl's parents are busy, the girl can't try out, right? I don't know why girls would want to try out for this organization.

2/6/12 (03)
It makes me really mad that there was an armed robbery last night behind the emporium and there is no mention of this on ellwoodcity.org or ellwoodcityledger.com! This is insane. The people of Ellwood NEED to know that these things are going on.

After Christmas multiple cars on my street had tires cut. Police came and patrolled the street for a day. Again no mention of this in any police reports.

Sometimes we get lucky and Ellwood's police reports are included on timesonline but never on the actual EC sites that most of the EC residents read.

How are people suppose to know to be aware of these things? Not everyone is on facebook.

There definitely needs to be better communication on the ongoing crimes in our community. Its becoming very scary and a lot of people out there don't know it!

2/6/12 (04)
Raising the tax on homeowners has nothing to do with making Ellwood look respectable again. The problem is getting Boro Council to get off their butts and start making the landlords of these depleted buildings and properties to bring everything up to code. The Boro has no problem with trying to give the small owner citations for not cutting their grass or repairing their sidewalks. But do nothing to the people that own the buildings especially in the downtown area. Most of the empty buildings in the downtown area are not up to code which is the reason that nobody wants to purchase or rent them. The revitalization committee had the right idea, but not an amphitheater. One good looking place isn't going to make the rest of this destitute town look good. There are more important things to do in this town than to worry about a certain situation that is going on now. It is obvious that the Boro Manager, Council and the Code System People, take care of certain people in this City!

2/6/12 (05)
2/3/12 (08)
...they won by about 50 points! Riverside girls are on fire right now- jump on the band wagon, it’s ok.

By about 50 points? You were at the game and have no idea what the score was? Next time you want to post a such a sarcastic comment, I suggest you either attend the game yourself or at the very least, get your own information correct. That is something "Band wagon" people do.

2/6/12 (06)
to 2/1/12(7) I understand what you are saying. And I know that drug addiction starts in many ways and happens to people from all walks of life. Months ago I made a post here basically asking people to feel sorry for the drug addicts who are trapped in their life of addiction. I stated my opinion then that you need to watch your backs from drug addicts, though, and pray that they do something to go to jail, because jail is the only thing that can keep them away from the drugs long enough to withdraw and spend any significant time clean. Every drug addict will tell you, when you ask him or her what it will take to stop, that death or jail are the only two things that will stop them. My point is that, no matter why an addict is an addict, and no matter who they are, REHABS and OUT-PATIENT CLINICS simply do not work at stopping them and their addictions. They find all kinds of ways to pass scheduled drug tests, after which they immediately hit the drugs hard again. And all the while they are committing crimes by stealing from people to make cash or stealing cash so they can afford their very expensive habit. The Drug Court that is proposed is simply a joke, a very big joke. If the penalty for a "Serious" violation in the program is a WEEKEND IN JAIL, every drug addict will keep an overnight bag packed and go about their business using and committing crimes. Put them in jail if they commit drug-related crime. Crime is crime. I don't want a criminal in my midst JUST BECAUSE HE IS A DRUG ADDICT and the DA and the Judge want to lighten their criminal load!That is crazy! Think about it. All I can say is that drug addicts are reading about the proposed Drug Court and laughing like crazy at the DA's office, the courts and all the rest of us law-abiding citizens. Their life of addiction just got A LOT EASIER now that they know they wont go to jail OR EVEN BE ON PROBATION!! How crazy is that!!!

2/6/12 (07)
PIE Pride in Ellwood City, say that again, PIE Pride in Ellwood City…….
Are you sure about that?
Does anyone in Ellwood really give a crap? Darn few if any do.
Just walking the streets is an adventure in discarded materials. Everything and anything from McDonalds to Burger King containers, scratch off tickets, assorted drink containers in various condition, wood materials, metals, cigarette boxes the list is a potpourri of things.
And most of this sets at the curbs in front of many homes, yet no one appears to make an effort to just pick it up and place it in their trash. Maybe these items may overfill those precious yellow bags, Nah! Just leave it the wind or something else will move it somewhere, it’s not my responsibility and it’s not in my yard. Actually in a number of cases it is. Maybe if I hit it with the mower a couple of times it won’t look as bad or no one will notice.
I have observed individuals just kick or move an item out of their way and into the street because it was near the car. Come on, how hard is it to pick it up and take it with them and dispose of it correctly, really are you kidding, pick it up?
Perhaps we need to change the PIE to POE! Yep, POE evidently that’s the attitude of many of your citizen Ellwood.
And in my humble opinion and we know what opinions are, the towns leadership could do many things to help change that. And a community plaza isn’t one of them.
Start by fining for littering, provide more downtown sidewalk trash bins and ask that people pick it up when they see it, we appreciate your help in keeping Ellwood lookin’ good.
Sad really SAD!

2/6/12 (08)
I don't understand what is wrong with having a petition in a bar. Alot of people who go to bars vote. I guess the person who made the comment is just out of touch and is probably a prude.

2/6/12 (09)
re-2/s/12 [07] they should keep them 2 things off of sound off also

2/6/12 (10)
Those of you who are in favor of higher property taxes fail to realize some key issues with such a move.

First and foremost, an area with high property taxes has to have some benefits or reasons for a person to want to live in this high tax area. There needs to be some things the community can bring like a stellar school system or atleast a top notch athletic department, great shopping and dinning areas, good jobs to offer, or some other type of reason to justify paying higher taxes. Ellwood City simply does not offer that.

I saw a recent poll that stated 73% of Ameericans live pay check to pay check. I would suspect that number to be even higher in Ellwood City. Raising property taxes would put even more of a sqeeze on budgets and would force some to move. It would cause others to use the extra in their budget for home improvements to no longer be able to afford that.

Higher taxes would dwindle the population even more, giving prospective businesses even less incentive to set up shop in Ellwood. Such a move would eventually make Ellwood City a virtual ghost town with fewer residents, businesses, and poorer conditions than we now have.

Those of you in favor of higher taxes are "putting the cart before the horse." Figure out a way to attract businesses to town, figure out how to create good paying jobs in this town, and figure out how to improve our public school system and then talk about raising taxes.

2/3/12 (01)
RE: 2/2/12 (10)

Ahhh, finally a voice of reason! For me it is not the cost that is the main issue. It's the inconvenience and nonsense with the bags. I keep saying that I feel sorry for the elderly having to fuss with those stupid bags. You should just be able to take the bag you use inside, throw it in a can outside and take it to the curb. I am willing to pay a little more for that!

2/3/12 (02)

2/3/12 (03)

2/3/12 (04)
You need to do something. There is proposed legislation in the State House licensing committee that will negatively affect each of us. Under the disguise of health and safety, Insurance companies are lobbing to have legislation passed making it mandatory for every practitioner of any type of therapy be a licensed doctor or be supervised by a doctor. This bill, HB 1717, includes Homeopathic therapy, Chiropractic therapy, Massage therapy, Acupuncture therapy, Aqua-massage therapy, Herbalist, and Nutritional. When the insurance companies are finished we will not be able to buy a vitamin pill without a prescription. If you think you are not affected you’re wrong. It’s you, your kids, your Mother, your Grandmother, your neighbor. We must get this bill stopped in committee. Call or email your State Rep. (Jaret Gibbons, James Marshall, Christopher Sainato). Don’t wait.

2/3/12 (05)
It's that time of year again. Time to sign-up for Ellwood City Little Wolverines Cheerleading.

When : Saturday, February 18, 2012 -------9:00am - 11:00am
AND Friday, February 24, 2012 ------- 7:00pm-8:30pm

Where: Ellwood City Family Center - Upstairs

2/3/12 (06)
2/2/12 (4) I've seen that suggestion before on this page and I agree with those comments. Our community leaders are so obsessed with low taxes that they cannot see the erosion of our town. 40% of the houses in our communities are rental properties. Many of those are absentee landlords. Every thing is done on the cheap, probably because so much of our tax money goes to pay for police salaries and benefits... And for bulletproof vests for our wanna-be mayors. Raise the taxes, use the money to demolish the abandonded properties, make the building lots bigger than they were when the town was laid out for housing for the industrial workers, so that people will have a larger space to build on, and make Ellwood an attractive place to live again. Portions of our town are slowly being lost to blight. Raise the taxes so the borough can have some money to fight the spread that is threatening to turn larger and larger parts of our boro into "bad neighborhoods". This council and boro manager won't do anything unless they can get a grant to pay for it. While they are applying for grant money, we all watch our property values decay to nothing. And $2 1/2 Million to build a stage!! We'll see how well that idea works out. BTW the money being used for that stage is not state money, there is no such thing, it's our money going through a few more middlemen. They call themselves representatives and senators.

2/3/12 (07)
A guy came in to an Ellwood City bar last night trying to get signatures for some democratic campaign or something…I’m not even sure. But, as I sat there at the bar, eating my sandwich and drinking a beer, he says, ‘are you a registered democrat.’ I was always told to keep two things out of the bar: religion and POLITICS. Leave me alone, or talk about the basketball game that I was watching!

2/3/12 (08)
Congratulations to Sam Weir for scoring over 1,000 points in her career last night. It was even a home game. It was a nice moment for her and her team, especially because they won by about 50 points! Riverside girls are on fire right now- jump on the band wagon, it’s ok.

2/2/12 (01)

2/2/12 (02)
Re: 2/1/12 (06)

Ill throw you a bone, What is your contribution to local taxes and community services?

2/2/12 (03)
So many excuses in your paragraph about drug addicts! We all have a choice, and that choice is to either use drugs or not! I do agree that there is a percentage of addicts where their addictions have escalated due to the use of pain meds and could not stop using them. drug users are known for coming up with any excuse they can get as to why they use and why they dont quit! You want a good start and stopping the drug abuse and sales of it in our town, close some of the local bars that draw this trash into our town!

2/2/12 (04)
1/31/12 (08)
Re: 1/30/12 (14)

Call it chattering or call it anything else you want. I am simply stating that in all the places I have lived, never did I have to buy additional mandated "bag" for my garbage. You buy a garbage can and the garbage company picks it up. Garbage pickup was either a separate monthly bill or it was included in either your water bill or sewage bill. I don't see other communities using the mandated "bag" system. Maybe people in Ellwood aren't that smart after all. Regarding Armstrong, after getting a notice that basic cable is going up $29 you can bet I am dumping them! Regarding electric and low property taxes...have you looked around Ellwood lately? It's in shambles. Perhaps we need to raise property taxes so we can have a nicer looking town and get these people who don't take care of their homes outta here!

2/2/12 (05)
Re: 2/1/12 (05)

She committed the crime confessed and did the time. He on the other hand still pretends to be a fine upstanding citizen. What he did may not be illegal but it is unethical and immoral. Instead of answering to the police, he will answer to God. I will leave it at that so this gets posted.

2/2/12 (06)
1. Why did the street sweeper have to run today and pick up salt from the streets? It was a beautiful day to be sure but we will still have snow. It isn't spring yet!
2. I now know why there are few places to park by the post office. The spots are filled by postal workers. Walking to my car after going to the post office today , I passed three workers in uniform getting into their cars. I know if you work in a restaurant or business such as WalMart you are advised to keep close parking spaces for the patron's convenience. I am able and like to walk but can see that it would help others if they had closer places to park.
Just two examples how some people in Ellwood have little common sense.

2/2/12 (07)
As the saying goes, It's a lot cheaper to rehabilitate than to incarcerate. But as long as the war on drugs is directed at the poor, and blacks, it will never be won. Haven't we had a drug czar ever since Richard Nixon? The drug profits have seeped their way up to every level of the drug enforcement agencies, a new revelation every week, new charges brought against a policeman or border agent or DEA official at every turn. Why is there never a person of means and background arrested and convicted and doing time???? Why do frat parties never get raided? Are they off-limits, or do we all believe the myth that the well-off don't do drugs. Or that there are no drugs on college campuses. It's only the poor whites and blacks who do drugs, right??? Do any of you really believe that it's only the poor in this country who have created the demand for the billions of dollars worth of drugs that come into our country every year?? The only people benefitting from the war on drugs are the drug cartels and the people they bribe to allow their trade to continue unabated. And that drug trade continues to wreak so much havoc with our young. Not too many alternatives left now. Legalization is probably out of the question, and too many people have a financial interest to see the drug trade continue. I remember when certain drug outlets in our town seemed to be allowed to continue for long after they were informed on. My Question is: why does it take so long to catch the small time dealers. Months long investigations result in the arrests of a bunch of street dealers. Why is that??? Does that garner bigger headlines and more publicity? Why don't the undercover people make an arrest on the first drug deal they witness??? And when someone takes that dealers place, arrest him on the first opportunity, also. And take any money or possesions that they have every time that they are arrested. The "war on drugs" is nothing more that a full time employment motto for the police and drug enforcement agencies.

2/2/12 (08)
Losing 51-4 is totally unacceptable.

2/2/12 (09)

2/2/12 (10)
The garbage bag solution is simple. Just adopt the process being done in other communities. Add the cost of the garbage contract to the individual building property tax. You would have to do a census of each commercial building and apartment building to pro-rate the fee for each individual unit which is rented. Order and place the large contaners and recycling units at each residence/building unit and pick up the trash and recylables.

Keep in mind that this is the way it was done before when the boro had their own garbage trucks and crews and the system worked a whole lot better than it does now.

Keep in mind that if you want the service, you are going to have to pay for the service one way or another!

2/1/12 (01)
What the heck is wrong with people? I just read about the Ellport sewage and park being damaged. If the gates are locked, obviously they walked and are local.
I hope they find out who did it and start hitting the pocketbooks of the parents if they are juveniles.

2/1/12 (02)
1/31/12 (06)
I have been a school band director for over 30 years. The districts which I have worked in all have had similar policies.

The Band Director and his assistants and the Coaching staff and assistants cannot serve as Band or Athletic Booster officers.

These organizations are set up as 501 - C-3 Non-Profits. The head band director and athletic director serve as advisiors to their respective booster groups. In addition, the staff memebers are not permitted to handle booster funds.

This avoids "Conflict of Interest." This does not mean that the band directors or coachs cannot work with the booster orgainzation members at fundraising events/booths.

Booster officers who handle the funds are required to be bonded.

So the question comes up in my hometown, should the league coaches serve as booster officers? I see no difference between what they do and what we do.

It is a simple check and balance system.

~Thank you for your post! That is exactly what I was trying to get across.

2/1/12 (03)
Reminder to Football parents, there is a Booster meeting this evening. Unless you are wanting the same dictatorship as last year, Please attend!

2/1/12 (04)
REWARDING DRUG ADDICTS!!!!!!! You have got to be sh*tting me? I have never heard such a more stupid idea ever. If you think my hard earned drug free money is going to go to some drug addict to go to the movies you got another thing coming. Let them get off the drugs and hold a job and make a living just like the rest of us do everyday! Quit babying the trash of society, thats the problem everyone is now "Entitled" to what the norm have! dont think so! I see the same trash roaming the streets as usuall, or driving their cars around acting liek they are some real hardcore gangsters! If they do not have the will power or drive to better their lives on their own then sorry for them! What is a movie pass going to do???????????????????

2/1/12 (05)
The conflict of interest with the football booster.Is very simple for the boosters voting.Do you want a father of a player who is also a coach and capable, trusting.Or someone with a criminal record in a position handling money,That is for the boys.

2/1/12 (06)
How about welfare and Access card holders be made to pick up litter all over the city? I think they should do something for their money. Oh, they would not have to start work until after they get out of bed...around noon!

2/1/12 (07)
This is directed at the post about the "drug court."

This is the first I've heard about this, so I really can't have much of an opinion on it. I can neither agree or disagree with it at this point, but I'm sure I'll agree with some of it and disagree with some of it.

That said, I think you have some really misguided beliefs on who and what a drug addict is. A short-sighted view of a drug addict is someone who is a dirty, low-life slacker criminal. This probably is true in many cases. But it also isn't true in many other cases.

Someone who is a drug addict has a reason or cause to their condition. I don't think you will find many who aspired to be a drug addict. There are so many people out there who became a "drug addict" due to something out of their control. There are millions of people who have become "drug addicts" due to pain medication prescribed by a doctor after an accident, surgery, or other event that called for pain medication. I think the real criminals here are the pharmaceutical companies who create this poison knowing it is highly addictive.

Unfortunately many people end up this way due to these circumstances and simply lose control. Once they have healed from their injuries or ailment the doctor stops prescribing the pain medication, but they are hooked. Do you feel someone in this situation belongs behind bars rubbing shoulders with a violent criminal?

The prison system to me doesn't work. I think people come out worse in most cases. What a drug addict needs is help, jail doesn't offer that. I'm sure law enforcement officials could show numbers that proves jail does little to cure a drug addict of their condition...I'm sure that has a lot to do with this new idea.

You stated that locking them up is the only way to truly keep them off drugs. This is false, jails and prisons are somehow full of drugs. I don't know first hand, but I've heard many times it's easier to get drugs in jail than it is on the street.

I don't know who you are, but I feel pretty confident that you either have a friend, family member, co-worker, or someone else you hold in high regard who is unknowingly to you a "drug addict." You yourself someday could become a "drug addict" because you don't know what tomorrow holds.

You also said you don't want one cent of your tax dollars to go to this program. Do you have any idea of the cost to keep someone in jail? I would guess this is a cheaper alternative to deal with the growing drug problem in this community.

If you want to get upset about something, I'll give you something. It's become public knowledge that our town has been invaded by drug dealers involved in organized crime from Detroit, Michigan. They have preyed on our community and escalated an already big problem.

Our officials know who they are, where they are, and how they operate. Why are they not dealt with? Honestly it seems like their "competition" keeps getting arrested, but not them. I really have to wonder why...I don't know, maybe I've watched too many Mafia movies.

1/31/12 (01)
I read in the Ellwood City Ledger that they are putting in place a drug court that will keep non-violent offfender drug addicts out of jail and off probation. They will be given movie passes and gift cards for good behavior. And for serious things will be given A WEEKEND in jail!. HaHaHaHa. This is the greatest insult to law abiding citizens yet to come from the DA's office and the courts. This post I saw in the Ledger says it best: "This is some big JOKE! And now the drug addicts will be all happy and kicking up their heels. This program is being put in place by people who have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what drug addiction is and how clever drug addicts will pass every test put in front of them and keep on using drugs and stealing from people. It is like the current system. Probation officers not violating drug addicts who test positive for opiates because they "are doing so good". What does "doing so good" mean if the person is using drugs?! Either a drug addict is using or not period. And this article talks about a "minor slip-up"? What the heck is that? Use of drugs? One burglary? Prison time is the only way a drug addict can keep away from the stuff long enough to survive. I think that part to of this program is that he is required to bring into his personal home for extended periods of stay anyone who is "doing good" and has had only "Minnor slip-ups". Just to show his confidence in the program. Yeah, that's right let him do that. Or even bring in someone who has been in his program successfully for a few months. Yeah bring that person into his personal home just to see what good his movie tickets are doing (and these drug addicts will be selling their movie tickets and gift cards for drug cash). This is so offensive to people who have drug addicts in their familes. Yeah, the drug addicts will be happy now. Right now, the fear of going to jail is the ONLY thing that keeps them half-serious about not getting caught. All good citizens must now KEEP ARMS IN YOUR HOMES and get good security systems. Because no drug addict is going to be worried about one weekend in jail. We will now be overrun with drug addicts. They meet their best drug contacts in out-paitent meetings and know very, very well how to pass scheduled drug tests. How painfully shameful this program is. this is truly a set-back in the war against drug addiction and related crimes. This just makes jobs for the good-talker counselors who are looking for work or want to preserve their jobs. Fire them and build more prison space with more corrections officers!! DO NOT GIVE ONE CENT OF MY TAX DOLLARS TO A DRUG ADDICT IN THE FORM OF A GIFT CARD OR MOVIE TICKET! I PROTEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

1/31/12 (02)

1/31/12 (03)
Re: 1/30/12 (13)

I believe you would be wrong. I liked the coach you are referring to, and I liked his program but I watched this years senior boys play in 7th and 8th grade and they were amazing! It was cute too because everyone on the team was named either Anthony or Matt. What people in Ellwood City fail to realize is you have to start learning the fundamentals of a sport before reaching the high school level. Very few high school aged kids can step into a sport and excel. A coach can insert one, maybe even two kids into an existing program but you cannot make a successful high school team without them first knowing the fundamentals of their chosen sport.

1/31/12 (04)
1/30/12 (17)
Does anyone know what happened to the metal fence by the laundromat in ellport?

A car plowed into it. There is always accidents on that stretch of road. It is consistently icy too.

1/31/12 (05)
1/30/12 (12) So now the president of Nike is god too??? Nike???? Isn't that the company that has no american employees??? The villain in this investigation is the fact that there never was one... Until the lid blew off the cover-up. Big article in the PPG yesteday stated that 39% of the students at the PSU campus are from out of state. Is that because Penn State University collects so much more in tuition from out of staters, or is it because Pennsylvania's high school kids don't measure up????? Jopa will probably still be held in high esteem in Happy Valley and PSU alums, but the rest of the country sees it a lot differently. But don't you worry, the emphasis will cotinue to be filling up that stadium. And the thought of naming that stadium after a man who allowed a child molester to continue to prey unabated on young boys would be the biggest travesty in the world. that ain't gonna happen. It's tough learning that your hero failed when it counted, isn't it???

1/31/12 (06)
I have been a school band director for over 30 years. The districts which I have worked in all have had similar policies.

The Band Director and his assistants and the Coaching staff and assistants cannot serve as Band or Athletic Booster officers.

This avoids "Conflict of Interest." This does not mean that the band directors or coachs cannot work with the booster orgainzation members at fundraising events/booths.

Booster officers who handle the funds are required to be bonded.

So the question comes up in my hometown, should the league coaches serve as booster officers? I see no difference between what they do and what we do.

It is a simple check and balance system.

1/31/12 (07)
1/23/12 (12)
Hooray, we got some snow accumulation over the weekend! Question, open for all reponses, where is the best area to go sled riding? I am decades out of my childhood prime, but have a couple nephews, and I wonder where parents and kiddies go these days.

They do virtual sledding on virtual hills while staying warm in bed in their in their virtual homes.You don't think they'd go outside in that weather, do you?

1/31/12 (08)
Re: 1/30/12 (14)

As usual. People who have no idea what's happening are chattering. #1 The bag system was started because of dishonest people who wouldn't sign-up for the monthly billing for garbage collection. They just waited till late at night and put their garbage out beside someone elses garbage who did pay. With the bag system, they can't do that anyomore. If you don't want to by the bags then don't. You figure out where you are going to take your garbage. You didn't sign the Armstrong Contract either? Well then don't pay for cable. Find another way to see TV or listen to the radio. The Electric Department is owned by the boro. It was started as a way to keep taxes down. Without it, you would still be paying electric to someone and a whole lot higher taxes! And don't tell me it would be much cheaper electric. Check and you will see it isn't! And don't tell me propery taxes are high in Ellwood City. Look around and you will see the truth of the matter!

1/31/12 (09)
the metal fence in Ellport got knocked down.

1/31/12 (10)
I read that recycle bins will be purchased through the recycling fund. Where was this fund last year when there was no money for a community trash pick up? Oh wait, there was no kick back in that service.

1/30/12 (01)
ESB needs to buy these buildings,...

Why don't YOU buy those buildings and show us how it's done?

I'll take a guess and bet you would witch about it should ESB turn them into parking lots.

1/30/12 (02)
Well. My posting days are over.

Thank God!

Amen!

1/30/12 (03)

1/30/12 (04)
What is the conflict? The booster club should support the program - PERIOD. If the coaches need suppport from the boosters for the good of the program, they should get it. You have a guy who is willing to help and you don't want it. You assume that a coach isn't for all of the kids. Why? Let me guess - your kid isn't a good football player, and you are going to blame coaches for playing favorites.

I have given you several reasons for the conflict, did you not understand? Should I use smaller words? Now that you've decided to take it to a dirty level. I don't want him presiding over boosters because
1) Its a conflict of interest.
2) He is a terrible influence for the boys. He has shown not only the parents but the boys as well that he is immoral and self serving. He may be dating your bff so you're letting personal feelings interfere but don't be fooled, he doesn't want to do this for the boys or even the betterment of the program, he literally believes it will built his reputation for something else here in Ellwood.
3) Like I said before, if he is a dedicated coach, he doesn't have the time for the demands of the booster club.

As for my son, you'll just have to buy a ticket to find out if he's a favorite or not.

1/30/12 (05)
There is nothing wrong with parents coaching their own kids if the intention is to coach ALL kids. Parents who are volunteering to coach because there is the lack of coaches is one thing, coaching because they have a child on the team is another. Lets be real, how many coaches do you know that just volunteer while their child is on the team? No interest after that?

1/30/12 (06)
1/27/12 (09)

You have got to be kidding me. I gave two very deserving men the credit they are due for many many long hours of coaching and dedication to a group of little boys who wanted to learn the game of Basketball. I'm sure neither man would want the recognition, but it's the truth and I see no wrong with letting the readers of Soundoff know! My son and I have great memories and if this group of boys continue their play, Ellwood has a bright future!

1/30/12 (07)
1/27/12 (16)
If you don't want parents coaching they're kids step up & do it yourself.

If you eliminated parents from coaching, there would be no kids to coach. What kind of comment is that? Be honest..

1/30/12 (08)

1/30/12 (09)

1/30/12 (10)

1/30/12 (11)
Does anyone know when the EC baseball sign-ups will be? Looked on line but could not find the ECABF site. Does anyone have any information at all? Usually by now flyers are being sent home from school, etc.

1/30/12 (12)
RE: 1/27/12 (13)
I can't imagine you read the Grand Jury Report, in its entirety, if that's still your attitude toward Joe. If you knew anything about him or Penn State, you'd know "Joe's wins" were the last thing anyone was worried about. Nike founder, Phil Knight, couldn't have said it better at JoePa's memorial service, "It turns out Joe gave full disclosure to his superiors, information that went up the chains to the head of the campus police and the president of the school. The matter was in the hands of a world-class university, and by a president with an outstanding national reputation...this much is clear to me. If there is a villain in this tragedy, it lies in that investigation and not in Joe Paterno.”

1/30/12 (13)
Dads who coach want to be in controll of the situation so their child can play. They have an agenda,they aren't fooling anyone. I believe the coach that was forced to resign deserves the credit for the boys basketball program.

1/30/12 (14)
Re: 1/27/12 (14)

Teressa, I second everything you said in your comment. The people who made the decisions regarding our trash/recycle, must have never lived anywhere else in the country. The bags are a joke and I would like to slap some sense into whoever came up with that idea. Somebody in this town must be getting rich between the garbage and electric. I agree, we should not pay for pickup because we did not sign the contract. For that matter, we shouldn't even pay for Armstrong...we didn't sign that contract either!

1/30/12 (15)
Let me start off by saying that my kids aren't even old enough to be in school, so I don't have any affiliation with the football or boosters program. However, after reading the posts, it seems that there's a compromise that can be made. If there are parents who would like to step-up & participate in the boosters, & there's also a parent/coach who is willing to help - why not have a small committee of both to run things? This way, ALL who would like to help have a say, & you set a good example to the kids that you're trying to help through showing a willingness to cooperate (something my toddlers learn via Sesame Street.)

1/30/12 (16)
Wondering why the Library cannot be open on Sundays? Especially in the winter - would be great for families

1/30/12 (17)
Does anyone know what happened to the metal fence by the laundromat in ellport?

1/27/12 (01)
Reg:1/26/12/(1)
I totally agree. Ellwood is not the town it use to be. I remember when we could rely on our neighbors and feel save. We never locked our doors. It was a great time,but try it now. But then we did not have all the drugs then either.

1/27/12 (02)
Re: 1/16/12 (06)

What is the conflict? The booster club should support the program - PERIOD. If the coaches need suppport from the boosters for the good of the program, they should get it. You have a guy who is willing to help and you don't want it. You assume that a coach isn't for all of the kids. Why? Let me guess - your kid isn't a good football player, and you are going to blame coaches for playing favorites.

1/27/12 (03)
Re: 1/26/12 (01)

I would agree with you. If I were the investigating officer, I find this scenario a bit hard to believe. I wonder what kind of Coach purse it was to only have a value of $100.00?

1/27/12 (04)
1/26/12 (16)
Hows come that local company, Adams Mfg couldn't make the new plastic recycling bins?

I have a question about the new recycling bins as well. If we have a population of over 8000, why did the Borough purchase less than 500 bins? How will they decide who gets the new bins? If you do the math: population divided by say 480 bins, that would be an appox. 16.5 people per household. Right?

1/27/12 (05)
Reg:1/24/12/(7)

AMEN!! Hopefully you learn a lesson and move on.

OOops I didn't mean to imply you yourself, I meant that in a generalization type manner. Sorry if I offended you!

1/27/12 (06)
1/26/12 (11)
There is nothing wrong with a parent who is also an assistant football coach leading the boosters.Especially when you consider the alternative.

I'm hoping with all I have he doesn't but if he were elected it would be his girlfriend running the show. Parents who were there last year, don't you think she's done enough damage already?

I'm a bit confused, are coaches no longer required to be a good role model? I can't believe this guy still has a job let alone now he wants to be president of the boosters. What a comedian. He either has a huge ego or he needs professional intervention.

1/27/12 (07)
It is obvious the ones complaining about a coach as booster leader.Have there own selfish interest in mind.If he is a parent why can he not be the leader as any other parent.

1/27/12 (08)

1/27/12 (09)
Individual name dropping isn't very nice and you know what post you wrote. It's actually kind of discriminatory. And whoever posted asking for names, why is it your business who promotes the successes (or defeates) of sports teams? Read the paper and you will see. Thanks to the volunteers who are paid or unpaid for their outstanding service. Nebby noses need not apply!

1/27/12 (10)
Very sad that traveling east into town on Lawrence Avenue brings you to the down demolished Air Physical Therapy lot and there are now two delapidated buildings, one being the former Panda Express, now sticking out like a sore thumb. ESB needs to buy these buildings, demo, and take over that entire 700 block of Lawrence Avenue.

1/27/12 (11)
Well. My posting days are over. This is truly a liberal controlled moderator. Probably the same person that pretends he is 5 different people. How sad you cannot lend to both sides. Moderator???!!! I don't think you deserve that title.

1/27/12 (12)
The last two years we had two straight months of snow every day, dismal darkness, bad driving conditions, high heating bills, and bone chilling cold. This year, we have some rain, intermittant sunny days, a few minor snow storms, but above all, VERY LITTLE SHOVELING. Ah, rain as much as you want, I don't have to shovel rain. What a blessing, only 6 weeks of winter left to endure, I'm hoping this will be a winter I don't mind remembering, not like those last two.

1/27/12 (13)
1/26/12 (12) "Penn State wouldn't be what it is today if it weren't for him". Will all of the supposed good that he was responsible for be negated by his lack of action that allowed a pedophile to continue to prey on children for ten long years after JOPA knew that Sandusky had committed a heinous crime on campus. Before you start the sainthood process, start weighing the good he did(win football games???) with all the horrors that went on after he failed to follow up. The fact that he admitted that he should have done more, makes me question his real motives, which were protecting his program, his image, his record number of wins. He ruled the roost, he supposedly disciplined his players without police interference, thereby making all of his recruits appear to be angelic young men. Joe's boys never did anything wrong(that anyone ever found out about) every criminal action was hushed up, hidden and downplayed. JOPA's downfall began on that day when he failed to consider the consequences of what that assistant coach had told him he had seen in that shower room. That sin of omission brought down all the people responsible for the 10 year cover-up, including JOPA. Penn State will recover, it is a great academic institution, it'a just those proud Penn staters who loved to crow "We are...Penn state" who feel a little bit deceived and now have to defend their university's actions. Joe's wins mean little now, he will be remembered more for what he didn't do.

1/27/12 (14)
The boro should have contracted with a local company for the new bins. I still can't understand why we can get larger bins for recycleing but still have to buy yellow bags. Is the boro going to charge us for these new bins? and just how much is this going to cost us? Between the trash bags and the electric company the residents here don't stand a chance. So many of our residents are elderly and on fixed income it is not fair. I think it would be fair if the city would get the people on welfare to collect the trash before they could get a check. It is time that the residents have a say in the way the town is being run. My name is not on the contract with the new trash company, no one asked me if I wanted to use them. The boro signed the contract let them pay for it. If I have to use them give me a choice bags or bin!!! You say buy local well how can we buy local when there are no stores in the area and the boro goes out of town to make such a large purchase!!!! You should practice what you are preaching.
Teressa Jones-Wojton

1/27/12 (15)
Does anyone have any comments on President Obama's suggestion that states raise the age that students can quit school??? I think the age a student can quit now is 16 years old. Does anyone think that such an action would help our students or not. Also how about longer school years and longer school days.

1/27/12 (16)
If you don't want parents coaching they're kids step up & do it yourself.

1/27/12 (17)
What a great and informative letter from Valley Waste! Thank you!

Everything is covered in the letter and there should be no problems unless for that one NEB who looks in others shopping cart.

The calendar is also very helpful.

1/27/12 (18)

1/27/12 (19)
To the person that feels like parents with kids on a team shouldn't coach. Who would you suggest take these coaching positions? Most of the time leagues are struggling to find volunteers to take the time to teach the kids. While I agree there are pathetic parents out there who feel their kids are the next MLB superstar please don't put all of us in the same bucket. I have coached baseball and football with some outstanding parents who dedicate an unbelievable amount of time to the kids while people like you do nothing, yet sit and complain about everything. Instead of complaining why not contact ECABF and volunteer to coach? You don't have to be an expert, just have good common sense and about 20-30 hrs of spare time every week from March through October.

1/27/12 (20)
This is the 2nd year for Jr. High Wrestling. They also did well last year. Most of the boys moved up to Varsity, which is their first year, and they also did very well. Great job to both teams.

1/27/12 (21)
To the person who says a parent shouldn't be allowed to coach a team when their kids are on the team,get your a** out there and help out!!
I do coach and my kids are on the team but i treat them like every other child on the team.It would help if all parents would spend just a little time helping instead of complaining about who is coaching.It also wouldn't hurt to spend 15-20 mins.a day teaching your kids how to play the game that you signed them up for so you get a free babysitter.

1/26/12 (01)
So, when someone leaves a brown Coach purse, valued at approx. $100, a $50 bill that was inside the wallet and another $25 that was inside the purse, and two jars of dimes equaling about $10 in their car at 1:30 AM I'd like to know when I should start feeling sorry for them?

1/26/12 (02)

1/26/12 (03)
I have said it before and I'll say it again! Parents who volunteer to coach a team when their child is on that team shouldn't be allowed to coach. Parents who have children especially in the lower grades are sometimes pathetic. Why? Naturally, according to them, their child is the best!

1/26/12 (04)
Um, I guess that is why so many posts were occurring.... It is an important conversation and preventing it from happening is censorship. The nice thing is that there are plenty of other places to go to do so, at least for now.

1/26/12 (05)
Just a note for all: I have noticed the plea from the police department regarding the locking of cars. While you will need to check with your insurance companies, the general rule of thumb is that your vehicle and/or home must show signs of "forced entry" before the insurance company will process and pay a claim for theft.

I know there are those who would argue that they leave their car unlocked so the don't have to pay for a broken window if someone tries to enter their car that way.

A parting comment: Locks only keep honest people honest. If a thief wants into your house or car, they will use any means to do so. So don't leave your personal items in plain sight in your cars. A computer, purse, I-pad or GPS sitting in plain sight is very tempting for a smash and grab.

Good luck and stay safe.

1/26/12 (06)
1/25/12 (01)
______
I have no idea who said the Booster Club was for parents only, I simply said having a football coach preside over the Booster Club was a conflict of interest. Which unless you're that coach, it's common sense!
You seem to have lost focus on what the Booster Club is about. The MAIN purpose of the Booster Club is the BOYS, all of the boys. Having a coach who may or may not be partial to a certain group of players could alter the "fairness" of a lot that the Boosters do for ALL the boys. Having a coach preside could also change the financial support of the football team and burden the boosters with coaching expenses.
PLEASE tell me why I should be happy a coach wants to take charge? And while you are at it, tell me how he is going to have the time. If he's a good coach, most of his time is already filled with football so how can he make such a commitment off the field?

1/26/12 (07)
1/25/12 (02)
Reg:1/24/12/(7)

AMEN!! Hopefully you learn a lesson and move on.

1/26/12 (08)
1/25/12 (06)

My belief for the 8th grade team is Damion Barrett and Brian DeLoia. They involved this team in a competitive Bantam Basketball League at the Y Zone in Neshannock. They taught these boys how to play confidently and aggressively against bigger teams from the start. No backing down or off, 100% for 24 minutes. They have very good coaches this year, but I truly believe it was Damion and Brian that got this machine rolling.
As for the wrestling team, I don't know whose responsible, but how great for them!! First year and everything. Way to go guys!

1/26/12 (09)
For the wrestling team...Coach Alberts and his great staff.

1/26/12 (10)

1/26/12 (11)
There is nothing wrong with a parent who is also an assistant football coach leading the boosters.Especially when you consider the alternative.

I'm hoping with all I have he doesn't but if he were elected it would be his girlfriend running the show. Parents who were there last year, don't you think she's done enough damage already?

1/26/12 (12)
RE: 1/23/12 (16)

I am a proud grad of Penn State. Joe was most definitely a huge part of the university. He wasn't just a coach, he was a teacher, a philanthropist and a role model to tens of thousands of students every year. He donated SO much of his earnings back to the university and even donated a massive library. He financed and encouraged the construction of the Spiritual Center (where his own viewing was) so that students of every background had a place to meditate and reflect. He sincerely cared about the Penn State community and did everything in his power to better it. This is not to say that I agree with his actions during the scandal, but you cannot judge the man solely on this. (Who are we to judge, anyway?) Friends currently at Penn State tell me that you can literally feel an emptiness on campus now that he's passed. Penn State would not be what it is today if it weren't for him.

1/26/12 (13)
A local oenophile is going to teach a class, "Wine Appreciation" at Slippery Rock University's Institute for Learning in Retirement in March. Contact that Department if you are interested.

1/26/12 (14)

1/26/12 (15)
Is it just me or does anyone else believe that this 35 degree cold rain would be snow 10 years ago? Our winters suck anymore. Its winter and cold, i understand, give me the damn snow and not this prolonged rain.

1/26/12 (16)
Hows come that local company, Adams Mfg couldn't make the new plastic recycling bins?

Will they recycle the old bins?

1/25/12 (01)
Wolverine Football parents take heed. One of the coaches is wanting to preside over the booster program. If you agree this is a conflict of interest, PLEASE come to the next booster meeting and help ensure our Booster program stays in the hands of the parents

Who said that a booster club is for parents only? The boosters should support the PROGRAM, not just the team while your own son is on it. You should be glad that a coach is interested in taking charge.

1/25/12 (02)
Reg:1/24/12/(7)
I remember that incident and the Priest did die of a broken heart from an untrue story. How sad . I think JoPa did die of a broken heart also and for not doing more. Life sure is not fair sometimes,but we must learn a lesson and go on.

1/25/12 (03)
What happened to "Freedom of Speech?"

1/25/12 (04)
1/24/12 (01)
Why do we not have an outdoor section on this page for hunters and fisherman to post pics?

I agree there should be space for outdoorsmen to post pictures.There should also be space for car lovers to post pictures.

Submit your hunting, fishing, and other accomplishments or announcements to ecstaff@ellwoodcity.org with information as you would like it to be seen on our website.

1/25/12 (05)
As a loyal reader of sound off I would like to thank the moderator.The nativity post have taken enough of this space.THANK YOU.

1/25/12 (06)
The posting about the Ellwood Jr high baskeball and wrestling teams are great.I am glad to see the Ellwood sports programs on the upswing.Who is responsible for upswing.

1/25/12 (07)
There is nothing wrong with a parent who is also an assistant football coach leading the boosters.Especially when you consider the alternative.

1/25/12 (08)
1/24/12 (11)
1/23/12 (12) There is a great place to sled ride on the South Shore at Moraine state Park. Enter the South side entrance off Rte 422 toward Butler, follow the road up the hill past the boat rental marina, it's on the left. Nice big safe hill, the rangers usually have a big fire burning in a barrel, the hill is roped off for safe passage back up the hill. Not too steep, just a nice long ride from top to bottom. Hope the kids have fun.

Exactly the place I was talking about! We love this spot! I didn't know who was responsible for the fire, but its great!

1/25/12 (09)
Re: 1/24/12 (03) Wow, must be nice to take your toys and go home...

I don't think it's as you say ... I think it's that nothing NEW can be said about that subject. NOTHING new. It's be said and re-said. And repeated, and repeated and rewritten .... Phew! Copied and pasted and commented on over and over.

While it is an important subject, it has been written about in absolutely ever way it can be.

Yep. Kinda like reading this post as I write the same thing over and over ...

1/24/12 (01)
Why do we not have an outdoor section on this page for hunters and fisherman to post pics?

1/24/12 (02)
So are you saying no one is permitted to comment about religion ? Or no one can comment about the nativity ?
Please clarify your position.
Thank you

1/24/12 (03)
ATTENTION: Ongoing posts related to the nativity scene and religion will be removed from the community forum.

Wow, must be nice to take your toys and go home...

1/24/12 (04)
Let's see if you print this.
Dear Moderator or should I say Censor Czar of Ellwood .Org--
It seems that not just religion and N_ _ _ _ _ y posts are censored by you. Political post are censored also. I'm not the only person that has noticed that Censor Czar.
If you don't like what is written it is not printed. You don't belong here, you belong in the White House with the gang trying to take over everything in our lives.

1/24/12 (05)
Haven't seen a game but very impressed with their record. Thanks for writing about them on here.

I didn't expect anyone to reply, Thank you for your kind words!

1/24/12 (06)
1/23/12 (12)
Hooray, we got some snow accumulation over the weekend! Question, open for all reponses, where is the best area to go sled riding?

If you want to stay local, Stiefel Park is sooo much fun. If you don't mind a travel, we love going to Moraine. They even put out a barrel for a little warm up between sledding.

1/24/12 (07)
1/23/12 (16)
JoePa passed away this weekend...what a horrible time for college football. Is there medical evidence anywhere that says someone can die of a broken heart?

I believe there was a priest who passed away here in Ellwood from a broken heart. Same type story line but different circumstances.

1/24/12 (08)
Wolverine Football parents take heed. One of the coaches is wanting to preside over the booster program. If you agree this is a conflict of interest, PLEASE come to the next booster meeting and help ensure our Booster program stays in the hands of the parents

1/24/12 (09)
Cant believe what happened today with the ellwood city boro truck and the older man..... This is a reason why we need a 4 way stop on the cornor of wayne n sixth wayyyy to many people fly up sixth ave .. Please lets get one put in.... Just the other when we had the snow a truck went up on the crib Because he was going to fast!!!!!! But im keeping the older man in my thoughts n prayerx please do the same!!!!

1/24/12 (10)
Thank you dear moderator for changing the subject!!!!!! Lots of other issues to comment on in this little bore.

1/24/12 (11)
1/23/12 (12) There is a great place to sled ride on the South Shore at Moraine state Park. Enter the South side entrance off Rte 422 toward Butler, follow the road up the hill past the boat rental marina, it's on the left. Nice big safe hill, the rangers usually have a big fire burning in a barrel, the hill is roped off for safe passage back up the hill. Not too steep, just a nice long ride from top to bottom. Hope the kids have fun.

1/24/12 (12)
For the person looking for a great place to take your kids sledriding..I have taken my kids to St. Agatha School..Great hill and no traffic and it's not to steep for us "fogies" to climb back up...ENJOY!!

1/23/12 (01)

1/23/12 (02)

1/23/12 (03)
And speaking of Junior High kids...how about the Jr Hi Wrestling team. Last weekend at Blackhawk they placed 7th out of 19 teams. That's not to shabby either for a first year team. Way to go- your the other young talent that no one knows about.

1/23/12 (04)
Who spray paints plastic garbage bags? How does it stick? LOL on that one. How much did you have to spend on the paint? I used my remaining blue bags by cleaning stuff out of my garage and basement. They did not go to waste and all was well. There are many uses for these bags inside your house to store things in, etc. get it....

1/23/12 (05)

1/23/12 (06)
1/20/12 (01)
Just wanted to congratulate the Ellwood City 8th Grade boys basketball team for a FANTASTIC win Wednesday! They have battled Neshannock for that win since 4th grade, Way to go guys you finally did it!! And Congrats on your 8-2 record! EC Basketball fans take notice of the talent to come!

-----------------------

Haven't seen a game but very impressed with their record. Thanks for writing about them on here.

1/23/12 (07)

1/23/12 (08)

1/23/12 (09)
The old physical therapy building is completely down now. Prints of Pa is closing. Main Street Ellwood City is not looking too good. Will the community plaza really bring Lawrence Avenue back to life? I don't know if it has the capability - but I hope so! I feel bad for Ellwood right now. I think it needs much more than a plaza to get it going again. What can be done, though?

1/23/12 (10)

1/23/12 (11)

1/23/12 (12)
Hooray, we got some snow accumulation over the weekend! Question, open for all reponses, where is the best area to go sled riding? I am decades out of my childhood prime, but have a couple nephews, and I wonder where parents and kiddies go these days.

1/23/12 (13)

1/23/12 (14)

1/23/12 (15)
Sweetheart dinner and dance feb 4th from 6pm 9pm eat then dancing after dj cowboy todd at the ellwood saxon club reservations call724 622 0797 prime rib,baked potatoe bar,rigatonis,meatballs,salad and vegtables

1/23/12 (16)
JoePa passed away this weekend...what a horrible time for college football. Is there medical evidence anywhere that says someone can die of a broken heart? He died just months after being removed from something he lived for. I didn't go to Penn State so I don't know how many Penn Staters must feel...if you went to Penn State, was he really as big as everyone says?

1/20/12 (01)
Just wanted to congratulate the Ellwood City 8th Grade boys basketball team for a FANTASTIC win Wednesday! They have battled Neshannock for that win since 4th grade, Way to go guys you finally did it!! And Congrats on your 8-2 record! EC Basketball fans take notice of the talent to come!

1/20/12 (02)
Muslim men wear their religious beliefs proudly on their head while the women wear it on their forehead....

You haven't bothered to learn the FACTS. I said, "If a Muslim football player were to perform the salah on the field, you'd have your panties all bunged up."

Look up the meaning of SALAH and come back with something meaningful to say.

Oh forget it. I'll tell you what a salah is. Salah is a ritual prayer at prescribed times. Salah is prescribed at five periods of the day. These are: near dawn, exactly at midday, in the afternoon, just after sunset and around nightfall.

Yup, if a Muslim performed the salah on the football field, you'd have your panties all bunged up.

1/20/12 (03)
Multi response in one post again.

1/19/12 (10)

"...maybe you can explain to all of us how a decoration for a holiday constitutes making a "law respecting an establishment of religion.""

As so many do, you loose focus on the specifics. The decoration ITSELF isn't a "law". The polices and procedures created by the government, in this case the local government, should either be designed in an unbiased manner to approve ALL requests by ALL citizens, regardless of statistical numbers in the community, so long as the requests do not violate any other law, OR deny ALL requests by ALL citizens.

Any bias on the part of that government in that particular policy or procedure would lead one to question whether that government, in whole or part, would ALSO commit other biased acts in the process of its duties.

"...to have the halloween decorations outlawed as well."

Are you saying there are Halloween decorations placed on government property upon request in the same manner that displays are put up by request of community members? Have you or anyone else requested your own display for that holiday be placed only to be denied? Or have, in fact, other members of the community actually requested their own representation and been approved, while you were denied?

The issue isn't to simply remove something one doesn't like. The issue is for the government to either abide by an all inclusive or all exclusive system of government, whether it is through law, policy, procedure, or other formal function.

If you feel a violation may have occured along those lines, you can try any number of organizations. The FFRF, or even the ACLU. If you actually investigate the ACLU, for example, you'll notice they have a page devoted specifically to debunking the argument that they don't support religious freedom in that they HAVE taken on a number of cases defending religion, including Christianity. So, if you feel your local government denied you representation through display during Halloween, feel free to raise a legal argument.

1/19/12 (11)
"...who said the display represents YOU?"

Many have argued that the Santa, reindeer, or other "secular" displays were put up to, supposedly, represent the non-religious community of Ellwood City. If the members of the non-religious community of Ellwood felt that such displays did not represent them, then they should be allowed to request something different put up, rather than be told that they should accept what OTHERS think represent them. Which apparently someone didn't feel such existing displays represented them as they requested a different display to be added as well. Exactly HOW the decision was rendered between that member of the community and the FFRF is between the parties involved. Not everyone who has an interest in the issues the FFRF raise even agrees that the banner is a good choice in its design. But many, while agreeing with certain issues of the FFRF, are not even donating members, and, therefore, have no real say in what the banner contains. Personally, I could think of a completely different design, but whatever I come up with will not matter in the grand scheme of the issue at hand. And, even if my design did matter, there would still be those who would prefer something different to represent them, whether they be religious or non-religious.

1/19/12 (17)
I appreciate the sentiment, however I actually do feel passionate about this issue. If I didn't, I would not speak on the issue (although, many DO feel passionate in their own way but choose not to speak up). My passion is simply the desire to keep all aspects of government NEUTRAL in fuction, regardless of the level of government. To do so protects each and every one of us in so many ways, not just in cases such as these. We can only hope that the committee truly works for reasonable compromise, rather than as a biased extension of one view of the issue or the other.

Again, thank you for the sentiment.

Andrew Rhodes
Wilmington, NC

1/20/12 (04)
Re: 1/19/12 (01)
I spray painted mine yellow and they took them. No problem.

------------------------------
Good post, great idea and what a chuckle I got.

1/20/12 (05)
"By protecting the citizens of the US from the government involving itself in any particular religion"

Wrong... By doing so only endorses the religion of Atheism. If you don't believe athesim is a religion you may want to do a little research of your own and look up how the Supreme Court has defined religion. To save you a little time, here it is: A "sincere and meaningful” belief which “occupies a place in the life of its possessor parallel to that filled by the orthodox belief in God.”

The only true solution would be all inclusion and free expression within the confines of free speech. A banner acknowledging atheism should be displayed if request, but it should not have to be the one provided by the FFRF. Simply acknowledging that there are some that do not believe in Christ, God, or Mother Earth should suffice. We do not demand that a crucifix appears on public property on Halloween after all, but....

1/20/12 (06)
RE: 1/19/12 (16)

I am not sure what gave you the idea I am angry at anything. I am merely stating a fact. Although the fact that one "?" is not enough for your question indicates you are quite angry. Thank you for reminding me of two other prominent liberal traits, anger, and psychological projection. Have a great day unless that means making others as miseralbe as you ;o)

1/20/12 (07)
RE: 1/19/12 (19)

That is awesome. Thank you for the update on the building. It is wonderful to hear that it will be getting used after all.

1/20/12 (08)
why is it that todays christians run to the constitution when yesterdays christians stood on the word of God ! according to the word you ARE NOT a citizen of anything except of HIS kingdom. you are NOT your own but you your bought with a price. and mostly the 1st commandment STILL says NOT to make any graven images . you who are fighting for this cause are breaking the 1st commandment and teaching others to do the same. WALK WITH GOD by faith, love one another and you will be a FAR BIGGER TESTIMONY of christianty than a nativity scene.

1/20/12 (09)
Enough on the nativity display already!! C'mon folks, we don't need a nativity to remind us or anyone else what we believe or hold in our hearts.
It's like wearing a sign around our necks to say "hey, everyone - I'm a christian". Ok, it's a decoration that has been around a long time, one we like seeing that reminds us of all those Christmases we enjoyed as a child. Doesn't mean you can't have the same enjoyment of seeing it- just in a different spot where it doesn't break the law. Yes, people - the law. I understand we all feel strongly about what's happening to religion in this world - so do I - but you don't solve the problem by breaking the law. Our local council members represent the law in this town. What does it say when we encourage those who took an oath to uphold the law - to break it? What does it say to our youth to set an example of disregarding the law when we don't like the law? Isn't that what our community leaders are saying? It's like saying "Well, I don't like the underage drinking law, so I'm buying a 6 pack for my 14 year old". Whether we like it or not, having the display as it was - was against the law. If you want to solve this problem - do what you can to change the law - don't just break it so you can do what you want. As citizens, we not only have the right, but the responsibility to try to change laws that we feel aren't right. Put your energies there. By the way - it might help to pay some real attention to the lawmakers you vote for. You know most people don't pay attention to people running for political office. And, we don't pay attention to the laws they're passing until it strikes home - and it's too late. This is a good example of why people need to pay attention and get involved. You can't be lazy about being a citizen - Like they say - freedom isn't free. Get a group together to effect change of this law we can't agree with - and we'll all be proud of our community. Otherwise - I can't say I'm proud of a community where the leaders who took an oath to uphold the law - do everything in their power to break them. To me, your oath was a lie. A note to our council and manager --- may I suggest you take at least one afternoon's course in 504 regulations so you'll know what the laws are before you get the borough in anymore hot water!! Just one more point - Our Christian religion teaches us patience and tolerance - sad to say we haven't seen much of that lately. It will take patience to change these laws and lots of tolerance to respect the rights of those who believe differently than we do. Try to remember that those who hold different beliefs, hold them just as strongly as we do ours - and that's ok. If you can't believe that - then I don't know what this county has fought for all these years.

1/20/12 (10)
Nativity scene gone....Too cold to skate board. What are you old coots gonna complain about now?

1/20/12 (11)
Ellwood City Masonic Lodge #599 will be hosting a community breakfast this Saturday January 21 from 7:30AM to 11:30AM at the Masonic Lodge 510 Crescent Ave.

This is an all you can eat breakfast for $6 with scrambled eggs, pancakes, bacon, sausage, toast, juice milk and coffee. Bring a friend and come socialize with neighbors and friends you haven’t seen in a long time and meet new friends.

1/20/12 (12)
Typical liberal. Run to the courts.
- Gee, that's what you're doing! Pot meet kettle.

The people of Ellwood would've let the banner hang if it was worded better.
- Why do you hate the Constitution of the United States, espcially the first amendment?

1/19/12 (01)
What do we do with the blue bags now that yellow ones are being used in ellwood

I spray painted mine yellow and they took them. No problem.

1/19/12 (02)
Reg: 1/18/12/(3)
How sad and hateful person you must be.I believe religon is a person's choice and each and everybody can chose there own and the government should not get involved. I would respect any religion and you should do the same. Or is it because this is a man who is not ashamed to pray. He has been going to prisons and preaching with his father since he was a child. This is nothing new and again he was not making it a grand stand play,this is his way of life. It is the hate in people like you or is it the jealousy in you that must complain. I suggest you get some religion yourself and let each person pray in there own way. "HATE" is what is destroying you.

1/19/12 (03)
Re: 1/18/12 (05)

If the buildings are vacant, where are you tip toeing too? Stay home and post more sound off messages, we just can't get enough of your negativity!!

1/19/12 (04)
Who do you think you're kidding? If a Muslim football player were to perform the salah on the field, you'd have your panties all bunged up.

Muslim men wear their religious beliefs proudly on their head while the women wear it on their forehead. No one asks them to remove anything. We have mormons knocking on our doors each summer asking if we want to share in a reading from their Bible with them. To steal a line from John Lennon.. Live and let live. I still say Ellwood should hang that banner and when it turns up missing ask for a replacement, and when the replacement turns up missing ask for another and so on.. There can be no lawsuit if the Borough is constantly waiting for a replacement banner!

1/19/12 (05)
I must have missed this in a previous Ledger. Ellwood City now has a Keep the manger committee. That is hysterical! I knew you people would take something beautiful and turn it into a political game, I just didn't expect it to be to this extent!

1/19/12 (06)

1/19/12 (07)

1/19/12 (08)
RE: 1/18/12 (14)

Guess what, decisions and laws are ment to be changed. You as a liberal of all people should know that. Liberals have been doing it for 100 years now, but FINALLY the pendulum is starting to swing back. I only wonder what lengths the radicals on the left will go to, to stop it. They always talk about violence on the right, but if you look it almost always comes from the radicals on the left.

1/19/12 (09)
1/18/12 (14)
Since the Nativty issue has alreaday been determined by the US Supreme Court,
---------------------------
Typical liberal. Run to the courts. The people of Ellwood would've let the banner hang if it was worded better. The banner the freedom from religion group sent here was distastful at best and hate filled at it's worst. You people who opposed, for whatever reason, the Nativity just didn't get that.

1/19/12 (10)
RE: 1/18/12 (06)

You "seem" to be somewhat knowledgable on this issue, maybe you can explain to all of us how a decoration for a holiday constitutes making a "law respecting an establishment of religion." And once you do, please let me know when the lawsuit begins to have the halloween decorations outlawed as well. I am against Satanism and Paganism, but I have to look at the decorations. I don't go looking for a group of busy bodies to sue the city thought.

1/19/12 (11)
It has been my point, and the point of a great many opposed, not to the Nativity itself, but that the symbolic and/or display representation on government property be either all inclusive, upon request of ANY citizen, regardless of "majority" or "minority", and regardless of the ASSUMED idea that others know what might represent those other members of the community (just because you put out what YOU call "secular" displays does NOT mean that it ACTUALLY represents what a specific member of the community might consider representation; would you, after all, want someone ELSE deciding that a different display represents YOU or even that the display YOU choose will be accepted, but ONLY if others decide that it is acceptable after a few changes?), or that it be all exclusive.

I dont understand- who said the display represents YOU? No body has ever said the display represents the ENTIRE COMMUNITY. Just like the other symbols in the display do not represent me or my beliefs.

1/19/12 (12)
1/18/12 (4) To the best of my knowlwdge, a court witness doesn't have to swear on the Bible, they only have to swear to tell the whole truth. To insist that a Hebrew or Islamic or Buddhist person swear on a Bible has been invalidated for many years. You must still be watching "Perry Mason" episodes. Things have changed, one of these days we may have a president who swears on the Mormon Bible, would that upset your ideolgy???

1/19/12 (13)
Multiple responses in one post.

1/18/12 (04)
For your reference, but certainly feel free to research further.

http://atheism.about.com/od/ideasforatheistactivism/a/AffirmSwear.htm

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg11.htm

1/18/12 (11)
"You been from out of town as you say you are why should what goes on in Ellwood City bother you."

I've already responded to this claim in advance in at least one prior comment. Please feel free to look at past comments for the answer.

"Show were is says anywhere about seperating government from religion."

There are numerous sites giving you full and thorough answers as to the "Establishment Clause" and how and where "Seperation of Church and State" is referenced. An educated and intelligent individual would be able to easily find those answers. Nevertheless...

By stating "...Congress shall make no law respecting an estaishment of religion,...", the First Amendment clearly pointed out that the US government, in enacting ANY law (including policies and procedures referenceing those laws) that respected any existing (an Establishment) of religion or creating (the Establishment) a unique religion, would cause the apperance of the NEUTRAL government, which the US Constitution and its Amendments actually created, to become biased. By protecting the citizens of the US from the government involving itself in any particular religion, the US constitution actually protects ALL religions, as well as non-religious individuals and organizations, from the government's bias towards any one religion.

The 14th Amendment, as you will note in proper research, extends those protections by including individual States and lower government levels as well under the First Amendment protection.

Again, feel free to do further research on the subject to obtain more detailed explainations. I am hardly one to suggest that anyone limit themselves to my own arguments and expect others to follow a " 'cuz I say so" justification that I am correct.

Andrew Rhodes
Wilmington, NC

1/19/12 (14)
1/18/12 (2) whats so great about convictions?? Most politicians have convictions, and they are usually the same convictions of the people who reelect them. Very convenient, but to act like you should never compromise your convictions may not be good for you. Heck, Hitler, Stalin, and Hussein all had convictions, they weren't the kind that anyone would admire, but they had the power of their convictions too. Convictions!!! Highly overrated..

1/19/12 (15)
Re: 1/18/12 (01)

As far as the grammar goes, I will repeat I do this on my short break and do not edit or correct my posts. Also I love Ellwood and when I left there were zero jobs. I am sorry you misunderstood my original post. The jobs I speak of are engineering jobs, that require higher education. Also in the future a high school education is not going to get you a job that you can live on.

1/19/12 (16)
Typical "conservative". Didn,t get your way, blame liberals. The constitution is neither conservative nor liberal, but folks keep tryin' to interpret it to serve whatever purpose they are promoting at the time. And why is it that the conservatives are always mad at the constitution???? They're always whining about not being able to do what the majority wants, why they just can't keep following their "traditions", why can't we read the bible to students anymore, and when they can't get their way they blame it on liberals????

1/19/12 (17)
Thank you Andrew Rhodes for your thoughtful and deliberate comments on religion and government. But please acknowledge that the thoroughly incited followers of the belief that tradition and majority overrides the constitution, and that the constitution says nothing about creches on government property, will be slow to agree with any of your logical arguments. A panel has been assembled to try to find a compromise (heaven forbid) that will satisfy both the rabid believers who want to fight it out in court, and the dispassionate folks who try to make their decisions based on facts, past court cases, and legal advice. No emotions or political involvement... All this will pass, some pandering politicians will get a few votes, but some compromise will be found and a new, perfectly legal spot will be found to honor the creche and start a brand new tradition. Thanks again, Mr. Rhodes!! And thank you Council president DeCarbo for defusing this situation and for seeking a way for most people to be able to say "We won". That seems to be what it's all about, after all..

1/19/12 (18)
I"m getting a big laugh reading about some people's (one admitted woman) who claim not to compromise their convictions, because most people make compromises every day of their lives, especially women. Don't women make compromises at the beauty salon?? At the grocery store??? Buying SHOES??? Buying clothes, especially if their shape isn't perfect??? Buying a PURSE???? Finding/marrying a husband is probably the biggest compromise that women make. Only the one percenters (very rich) can demand their way every time.. The rest of us....compromise.

1/19/12 (19)
First, for all of you who are sooooo concerned about the Nativity situation and the fact that Tebow finds it to be okay to ask the Lord for strength when he needs it, the more you find it necessary to fight about it, the more the Lord's Word is getting passed around. So, keep it up & we who find that to be a good thing will continue to Praise God For It!!

Second, for all of you who were soooo concerned about the building at First Baptist Church, and who were sooooo quick to render opinions without facts, take a look. The building is gone and you should all be able to sleep better tonight. As a former officer of the Church, I can set it clear that the Church donated the materials to Pine Valley, and the building is going to be used for what it was originally intended. Again, Praise God For That!!!

1/19/12 (20)
re-Blue bags, the borough should be responsible for reimbursement since they are the ones realizing a savings, as they're paying less on the contract while we are losing money, typical govt. self serving instead of looking out for who they are supposed to be serving.

1/19/12 (21)
Who is responsible for shoveling the snow from the sidewalk in front of the empty construction site...

Oh gawd! The ole grumpy complainer has progressed from snooping into grocery carts, to bashing the skateboarders to witching about snow on a sidewalk that he probally NEVER walks on.

Cross the dam street if it bothers you that much or get a shovel and do a good deed for once in your life.

You must be a real gem to live with.

1/18/12 (01)
re: 1/17/12 (07)
Who said I was stuck here? I quite enjoy living in Ellwood City and do not plan on moving. I have a good job and modest home and am very happy here. I only asked about the jobs you say are plentiful for others who may be looking. The problem I have is that you say your company has job openings but you will not elaborate any further on them. Why?
You moved away. Maybe others would too.
You also make it sound like anybody looking for a job hasn't had any education beyond high school and would not be able to perform at the level you do without a degree. And then you turn it around and say that the positions will be filled by immigrants with visas. (Probably without degrees either) Way to help your fellow countrymen. That may be what is wrong with this country. People like you. You put it out there for people and then when asked for a little information, you turn your back on them and leave them high and dry. This might be why I am a little angry.
By the way....again, the grammar in the very first line of your response is completely incorrect. How did you even get a job with such a little grasp of your own language?

1/18/12 (02)
Compromise has a way of destroying convictions. Without convictions, lack of direction will destroy life.

Very true and just to add my two cents (coz' i'm a woman, lol) when you have no convictions or direction, you're more likely to compromise.

The mind is like a parachute; useless unless open.

1/18/12 (03)
The problem you do not understand is Tebow has been doing this all his life. He is not trying to jam it down anybody throats....

Who do you think you're kidding? If a Muslim football player were to perform the salah on the field, you'd have your panties all bunged up.

You just want to make America a Christian theocracy like they have in Iran. It doesn't matter what religion it is, you just want a government run by relgion.

1/18/12 (04)
So what's next? FFRF will oppose the judges that ruled to uphold separation of church and state by not allowing witnesses to be sworn in with a bible?....the President of the U.S.A. to not be sworn in with the bible either? But wait, it's been tradition to do that.

1/18/12 (05)
Who is responsible for shoveling the snow from the sidewalk in front of the empty construction site of the soon to be community plaza? Is the borough responsible? The contractors? I can’t wait to have to tip toe through snow and slush of the unshoveled walks in front of all the vacant buildings on the main drag.

1/18/12 (06)
1/17/12 (09)
"I just don't understand what you need protection from - if you don't believe in the Nativity and what it SYMBOLIZES, then why not just get on with your life and let those who do believe enjoy it."

That is the problem with the argument of those who "support" it, they are using diversion tactics to mislead many as to what the REAL issue is.

What we ALL "need protection from", regardless of belief or interest, is government bodies that show bias in attitude and design, regardless of the level of government.

That is, contrary to the misinformation of so many, what the core issue is.

It has been my point, and the point of a great many opposed, not to the Nativity itself, but that the symbolic and/or display representation on government property be either all inclusive, upon request of ANY citizen, regardless of "majority" or "minority", and regardless of the ASSUMED idea that others know what might represent those other members of the community (just because you put out what YOU call "secular" displays does NOT mean that it ACTUALLY represents what a specific member of the community might consider representation; would you, after all, want someone ELSE deciding that a different display represents YOU or even that the display YOU choose will be accepted, but ONLY if others decide that it is acceptable after a few changes?), or that it be all exclusive.

I have already addressed the issue, previously, of the appearance, at the least, of neutrality in the government body. And that stance remains.

For the most part, no one cares what you put on your private land, what is put on the land of your private religious establishments, and even on various businesses. Even walking around singing loudly (so long as you don't have a "captive audience" and exploit such) is nothing of import, though if you have to obtain a permit to do so, then OTHERS should have the equal opportunity to do so, or all be denied. I say "for the most part" because we know there are certain "offensive" symbols which many would claim violate Hate speech which, supposedly, is not protected by the First Amendment, which I happen to disagree with strongly. If you want yourself identified by symbols or displays which some consider built around "Hate", fine. But then, other individual's Freedom of Speech AGAINST you should be protected as well.

At any rate, contrary to what so many fail to comprehend is that this IS about the usage of government property and the appearance the government body presents itself with when various policies and procedures, let alone law, are not abided by in a NEUTRAL manner, ie all inclusive or all exclusive.

And even the appearance of bias is what we ALL "need protection from" in regards to the government.

Andrew Rhodes
Wilmington, NC

1/18/12 (07)
Thank you borough council and valley refuse for throwing away an hour of my hard-earned pay...on "blue bags!"
I feel even worse for residents, living on social security, only.
"Blue bags" should be honored by the new company, until individual supply is depleted...those rolls of ten(10) lasted several months, for seniors and small families.
Progress isn't progress, for those of us who remember borough employees collecting the garbage(1950-1970's)!!!

1/18/12 (08)
What do we do with the blue bags now that yellow ones are being used in ellwood

1/18/12 (09)
RE: 1/16/12 (02)

Typical liberal, can't win an argument, start insulting people.

1/18/12 (10)
RE: 1/17/12 (12)

I admit I have not read every post about the nativity, but I do not recall any mention of violence except from those who are trying to push an agenda calling the supporters "angry mobs, etc." You are correct, the minority are trying to seek redress of their grievances, but that does not preclude the right of the majority to do so as well. What you are seeing are the majority of individuals all over this country seeking redress of their grievances. Liberals are just upset because they really have had no opposition to deal with for over 100 years. Everyone always said, "it could never happen in America." Well, you have woken the giant of the American majority. Deal with it. In case you aren't aware of it, what you believe is not always correct. I would guess quite to the contrary actually.

1/18/12 (11)
This for the gentle Andrew Rhode who keeps posting how wrong people of this town our for fighting what they believe in..You want to talk about twisting the constiution and Amendments for your needs of not wanting it there on the municiple building property or not.You been from out of town as you say you are why should what goes on in Ellwood City bother you.And further more the Amendment1 that you are refering to reads as follows, "Congress shall make no law respecting an estaishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble; and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" Show were is says anywhere about seperating government from religion.

1/18/12 (12)

1/18/12 (13)
My little rif-raf is an honor student. Yeah he skates but he's not drinking, doing drugs or hurting others. Claps to Marshall Funeral Home for being so wonderful to our kids and letting them skate there. I hope he stays a skater for life.

1/18/12 (14)
Since the Nativty issue has alreaday been determined by the US Supreme Court, I wonder if officials ever thought about being sued for breach of their fiduciary duty?

Yup, wasting money on something already decided.

We all know their track record of winning in court....its.....well, its just not too good.

Are you ready to pay more taxes for theatrical blunder?

1/17/12 (01)
Reg: 1/16/12/(9)
You do not get it. You can see how unhappy you are to sit and watch kids outside, just to call the police.. You just do not get it. It has nothing to do with your kids,it was how unhappy you are if that is all you have to do. I think you should be out working in your yard anfd let the kids alone.

1/17/12 (02)
Compromise has a way of destroying convictions. Without convictions, lack of direction will destroy life.

Very true and just to add my two cents (coz' i'm a woman, lol) when you have no convictions or direction, you're more likely to compromise.

1/17/12 (03)
Reg: 1/16/12/(1)
As I stated the government should stay out of religion. It is the same as trying to have the government stop the obesity. They are trying to get involved it that now. It should be up to the families to control the obesity in children,just like it should be the families to decide what religion we should all follow. The government has more important issues to control, not how we pray or what we eat.

1/17/12 (04)
Reg: 1/16/12/(3)
The problem you do not understand is Tebow has been doing this all his life. He is not trying to jam it down anybody throats. The media happened to get a hold of it and ran with it making it a big deal. This is his life. What about how he brings a child who is less fornatune to each game. Is that all publicity or him helping and praying for others when he is not playing football. This is how he was raised and his beliefs. His parents did a wonderful job. So do not knock what you do not understand. It is not a grand stand play. It is a wonderful human being doing what he believes. And not care what the public thinks.We need more kids like him and it would be a better world.

1/17/12 (05)
While this post (along with a number of other posts by others who comment) may not reach moderation prior to tonight's council meeting, it should be noted that some arguments made by "supporters" of the Nativity have, very recently, been argued against in Federal Court in another case.

While that other case has many differences, it also has a number of comparisons which can be made, and which the local attornies of Ellwood may not have made the community OR the local government of.

The case involves a long standing tradition of a prayer mural being located in a Public school in RI. Obviously, there are differences between that case and your local one. Prayer mural as opposed to Nativity scene. Different states. And there are others as one goes through each case.

However, there ARE similarities. Religious symbolism and/or display at government own property (Public school, which IS government property), arguments of "long standing tradition", as others.

As such, the recent Federal decision should be made public knowledge to BOTH Ellwood's community AND the local government before deciding to violate any agreements.

It is further understood that the council, in its last decision, did make a decision in this matter, however as pointed out previously, the decision may still have entailed the appearance of bias in moving only one particular religious display, rather than moving the ENTIRE series of displays OR approving ALL requested representation, ie all inclusion or all exclusion.

Be that as it may, here is a link to the full text of the 40 page decision set forth in the RI case. Feel free to read the entire document. My comparison in regards to "long time tradition" comes at page 30. However, reading the entire document is recommended to keep the entire decision in context.

http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2012/01/11/ahlquist_decision_011112.pdf

The link providing the .pdf document gives sufficient information for one to follow up and obtain the original legal document from the appropriate court should you question whether the .pdf itself is relating the entire document, unaltered in any way. No reason to give anyone the impression of tampering. You should be quite capable to obtaining said formal documents yourself if you are suspicious.

I understand many will not wish to comprehend the comparsion, or perhaps are simply unable to comprehend the comparisons, however, it would truly be in the best interest of the community and your local government to take these facts into consideration before making decisions which would have a negative impact on the community and its local government.

Andrew Rhodes
Wilmington, NC

1/17/12 (06)
does anyone know who to contact and who's a reliable company to have your home ductwork cleaned? was thinking about it but not sure if it really does any good. have allergies

1/17/12 (07)
Somebody asks you a question and that is the response you give? Did you make your original comment to show everybody how smart you are? Or were you trying to rub it in because you have a nice job? I'm not sure if you were trying to be smug in your comment about education being key to finding a job but if you think you are better than everybody else because you did have a secondary education then i'd have to say that you are an --. When it comes to grammar and the command of the English language, sir, I have seen 5th graders with a better sense of sentence structure and spelling.

First the comment was not meant to be demeaning to no one. It was meant to wake people up to the fact that our great country is being left in the dust because of a lack of training and skilled labor. All those jobs I listed will probably be filled by visa workers from foreign countries. Second I write this stuff on my break so I have no time to check grammer. I just type. Typical Ellwood response from my post full of anger. Not my fault your stuck there. Worked and paid my own way through college no help.

1/17/12 (08)
1/16/12 (06)
1/13 #8 I think the sites that say the Alliance Defence group are haters are the actual ones who hate. Those groups are the ones that scream tolerance to everyone but Christians. I happen to support ADF. Have a wonderful day !

And that is your " GOD given right". GOD BLESS YOU!

1/17/12 (09)
1/16/12 (11)
1/11//12 (7)

I just don't understand what you need protection from - if you don't believe in the Nativity and what it SYMBOLIZES, then why not just get on with your life and let those who do believe enjoy it.

1/17/12 (10)
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

i would be curious to speak with the clergy concerning those in the front row fighting to basically save a ""graven image"". what are you the clergy preaching that makes them willing to make a spectacle out of themselves and others over something thats in reality meaningless. put a nativity up in your yard !!!!

1/17/12 (11)
Tough loss tonight Lady Panthers. You girls played a hell of a game, battled, and lost to a very good Beaver Falls team. Keep your head up and lick your wounds from defeat. You will certainly see those Tigers later this season and in the playoffs. I hope we can place at least one local basketball team into the playoffs this year.

1/17/12 (12)
Been readin' the nativity scene comments since the furor began, and I'm wondrin' how so many people (or a handful of very busy people) seem to have such a complete lack of understanding about how our constitution and our government works, and how so many have such distorted views about what's legal in our country, and who gets to determine it. If we followed some of the suggestions, we would become a nation of 10,000 small town tribes, each one allowing the majority (at any particular time) to make all the rules. Some of the folks on this page seem to think that the threat of violence against the minority should be enough to stifle dissent against their own beliefs. That politicians in our town try to use the emotion of the crowd for political advantage is not new, we've had governors who believed that tradition was stronger than the law when the civil rights act was being enforced in the south. Some on this page subtley (and some not so subtley) suggest that it is anti-christian government policy trying to promote atheism, when in fact it is merely aggrieved individuals all over this country seeking redress of their grievances. Sometimes they win, sometimes they do not. Having a tradition taken away is not easy to accept, and passions run high, sometimes inspired by politicians, but this is a country of laws, some of which we despise, but we can't pick and choose which ones we are going to obey.. Just hopin' the creche finds a suitable home, it may not be the one we were used to, but then again, 60 years ago there was no creche at all. Just remember, change is inevitable, except from a vending machine!!!

1/17/12 (13)
More curious than anything. Can anyone guesstimate how many trains rumble through town on a daily or weekly basis? It always appears the tracks are silent for most of the days and times I am commuting through town. I am not complaining, just curious.

1/17/12 (14)
Having seen comments elsewhere regarding the events that took place at the council meeting, and being the biased comments of "supporters" I take those "reports" of events with a grain of salt, I can say that I am not the least bit surprised by the disrespect that was shown to many a speaker, including the disrespect towards an elderly gentleman who spoke, though had not "signed up" to speak.

Indeed, at least one of the "supporters" also felt that he, and others, were shown a good deal of disrespect.

From descriptions, it sounds very much like this gentleman has chosen a more central attitude of supporting the idea behind a Nativity, feeling it a quite important symbol to him, but feeling that the argument over where it is placed is nothing more than a disruption to the local government and can be more logically handled.

Some apparently feel that he is telling everyone to shut up and ignore the issue, but reading the comments presented, and knowing sufficiently of the individuals making those comments through their own comments, it sounds more like he is making an argument of "move the H**l on!". I suspect that if someone tried to demand he not display his symbols and displays of belief on his own property or at his place of religious worship, or even on businesses he may go to, he would be far more upset, and I, and many others fighting against such symbolism and displays being on government property, would actually be agreeing with him and supporting his argument.

But many simply do not comprehend the simple logic of such a stance. They want things ONLY their way and cannot comprehend anything else. But, based on what was presented from their view as his argument, that he was siding with NEITHER side really, but looking for a logical, intelligent solution that benefitted ALL involved, not to mention benefitted the city itself, I'd say I would agree, if that were, in fact, what he was endeavoring to say.

Of course, based on their comments as well, a "committee" was set up to investigate the options further, but that the names set forth, according to their comments, not an unbiased source, the committee appears to be biased in formation and inclusion and would be far more harm to the city than would be help to the city, as it appears primarily made up of "supporters" of continuing to violate US Constitional and Amendment law.

We will have to wait to see if other sources confirm or refute their publicized comments, however. One can only hope that the previous bias in their public statements, making them unreliable as individuals, let alone as anything even remotely similar to "informal journalists" or even trustworthy representatives, even indirectly, government consultants as "committee" members.

Andrew Rhodes
Wilmington, NC

1/16/12 (01)
The bottom line is the government needs to stay out of religion and let each town...

What do you think each town is? It's a government. Duh!

1/16/12 (02)
Why is it that you anti-nativity scene heathens didn't have the guts to appear at the meeting last Monday?

Because the decision was already made at the US Supreme Court years ago. You're spinning your wheels, wasting your money, and nothing but an exhibitionist Christian.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." --Ghandi

1/16/12 (03)
No one could care less what religion Tebow is (it's all nonsense anyway). What's annoying is how he keeps trying to shove it in everyone's faces. And he is a bad quarterback. Fans want to watch football, not some ol' prayin' hack.

If it annoys you, don't watch. That hack, by the way, just torched the Steelers.

1/16/12 (04)
RE: 1/13/12 (05)

I agree with everything you said, but I do have to say one thing. This is not about our faith in God as much as it is about stopping the slow creep of policies that are completely removing God from public life. It is not what our culture is based on and it needs to stop somewhere. It saddens me that our council does not have the fortitude to take up the battle. I have no doubt that they could get the ACLJ to assist with the case.

1/16/12 (05)
The creche is important but it is more important what is in your heart. Have you come to the cross and asked Christ to forgive your sins and save you for eternity ?
The Voice of the Martyrs - USA
ý"They [government authorities] deprive us of everything except eternal life. No one can take that from us." ~Russian Christian, arrested in 1969

1/16/12 (06)
1/13 #8 I think the sites that say the Alliance Defence group are haters are the actual ones who hate. Those groups are the ones that scream tolerance to everyone but Christians. I happen to support ADF. Have a wonderful day !

1/16/12 (07)
Something to think about today.
Compromise has a way of destroying convictions. Without convictions, lack of direction will destroy life.

1/16/12 (08)
RE: 1/13/12 (06)
----------------------------------------------------

Somebody asks you a question and that is the response you give? Did you make your original comment to show everybody how smart you are? Or were you trying to rub it in because you have a nice job? I'm not sure if you were trying to be smug in your comment about education being key to finding a job but if you think you are better than everybody else because you did have a secondary education then i'd have to say that you are an --. When it comes to grammar and the command of the English language, sir, I have seen 5th graders with a better sense of sentence structure and spelling.

1/16/12 (09)
1/13/12 (02)
Reg: 1/12/12/(13)

A miserable person assumes the worst of others. My life is very happy and full, but I appreciate the concern. I actually see them as I am, now read this slowly I don't want you hurting yourself, outside tending to my lawn, playing with my children, or just simply living the good life on my porch. Maybe if you were more of a parent and were more active in your child's life, he wouldn't have that urge to destroy. Just something to ponder while you're writing your next little reply.

1/16/12 (10)
Re: 1/13/12 (14)

I didn't post the riff raff comment but I found those words to be sooo much nicer than a lot of the others I've heard them called. Careful what you wish for! Those four unused fingers could also be used to dial the police.

1/16/12 (11)
1/11//12 (7) I know that you're in a state of denial over the nativity scene removal, and that you keep trying to interpret the constitution to justify your beliefs, but the Amendment that protects me and others like me (including you) from allowing ANY religion to be advocated by any government agency hasn't changed.... There is a malady called acute puritanism, which is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, is having a really good time, without any pangs of guilt or shame. I don't know if you have been afflicted or not, but beware, it is highly contagious in certain circles. Keep your immunity up.

1/16/12 (12)
1/13/12 (10) "Why is it that you anti-nativity scene heathens didn't have the guts to appear at the last meeting?" Geez, I read that and had to wonder just which one of the 427 arms/sects of christianity the writer was a member of. I fear what you so-called "christians" had in mind if an anti-nativity scene heathen showed up!!! You're still believing in majority rule, huh??? There were a hundred of you and one William Kaszycki, and his arguement prevailed. Of course, he had the law and reason on his side, you had passion and anger, and it still shows. Some people are just prime examples of the tyranny of the majority.

1/16/12 (13)
1/13/12 (19)
1. Your response was actually to 1/12/12(17), not (07). Just a clarification.

2. Inclusion of the name was a part of the overall comment being quoted. Since the individual, as you point out, had no problem making the comment publically, then, obviously, they have no problem with their name being publicized.

3. Feel free to comment on 1/12/12 (15) as that, too, was made by myself. I realize that this design system cannot easily link identities between comments, but, in fact, that very comment, 1/12/12 (15), was posted elsewhere on this site, with my name, therefore, you have my identity. What does that give you? Nothing really. Because the facts haven't changed.

4. But then again, perhaps you would like to respond like 1/13/12 (01) and complain about where I am from. That I, like many others who oppose religious symbols or displays on government land (contrary to all sorts of misleading and false claims by others to any other intent) (and note 1/12/12 (15) in regards to some of those issues) have no Rights to speak our views because we are not from said town.

You should refer to 1/12/12 (15)'s point 5 for a response to the "out of towners" argument.

5. Indeed, the issue of "majority" versus "minority" has also been addressed in that same post.

Now, if you wish to continue your whine about how important it is for a majority to make themselves heard over a minority and that the majority means the minority has no Rights, even when the issue isn't about majority versus minority but about about consistency at all levels of government as well as the US Constitution and its Amendments being abided by, feel free to look over those prior referenced articles and see if your argument has or has not already been addressed.

Additionally, it should be noted that the "long time tradition" argument has also been addressed with a court ruling just yesterday where, in RI, the court determined that a long time religious prayer posted in a school was ALSO determined to violate the US Constitution and its Amendments, despite the "long time tradition" argument.

And the reactions of many of THAT Christian community were just as "moral" as many of those here. Though those here, for a time anyway, did not have a specific individual target as those in the other case did, not until they had someone like the individual you referred to, to abuse in various ways. It seems that in any situation, once the wonderful "moral" Christian community has a target, they have no problem acting on their "morals", such as threats of violence, or even implications of support for violence, against their targets. Real "moral" training going on there.

But I digress from the fact that the various arguments surrounding "long time tradition" have been defeated as recent as yesterday in regards to religious symbols or displays on government property.

Oh, and for the record, 1/13/12 (08) is of my creation also.

1/16/12 (14)
RE: 1/13/12 (17)

That is the exact opposite of the intent of the first amendment. Reference the exact text, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Sound to me like they wanted to keep the government's nose out of how people worship, not the other way around. Atheism has become the new Church of England. You either worship nothing or you are punished.

1/16/12 (15)
So now, apparently, it's a mob mentality desire to slince Freedom of Speech on issues when the "majority" want to silence opposing views. We continue to see what "morality" is to many of the religious community. Because they want to cry about about their public comments being identified, I'll simply make a screenshot, complete with the identity, for review if someone wants such additional evidence to the quotes I'm making. again, reference a prior comment I made about "out of towners" in 1/12/12 (15)'s point 5. Perhaps it is, yet again, evidence that their argument is so weak that it cannot stand up to scrutiny or counterargument that they wish to silence opposing views.

"<edited out name of main commentor>
When I started "Sound Off" years ago we didn’t have a moderator and it got out of hand. Sam, Lucky and myself had to start weeding out the trouble makers and post only comments that were not going to hurt any individual, business or the borough. The new owners of EllwoodCity.org invite controversy. If you read the comments of all trying to bring the Nativity Scene down, they make it look like they are residents of the borough. We know and EC.org knows that these comments are coming from outsiders. They have gone to the extent to copy and paste from this page onto Sound Off. EllwoodCity.org’s Term of Service reads: Comments concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics or comments including personal information may be sensitively moderated if determined responses will become out of hand. What about the Sensitivity of our religious beliefs. Comeon EllwoodCity.org its not like your selling newspapers and have to print rumpus to bring more attention to your website. This may backfire on EC.org, I’m sure many of their advertisers are sensitive to our issue.

<edited out commentor name> Perhaps if the folks that live in the area post that they will NOT support the businesses that advertise on that site unless the mud throwing ends the moderators will see things differently. Just a thought."

1/16/12 (16)
re: The Nativity, Tim Tebow and Matthew 6:5-6, the most ignored Bible verse.

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

The Ellwood City clergy get it.

The attendees at the municipal building pep rally do not.

1/16/12 (17)
I am not proficient in the English language by any means but, I have noticed comments made recently that state, " I could care less", when the correct usage should be, " I couldn't care less". Could care less denotes that you really could care less.

1/16/12 (18)
While experience of the "Sound Off!" pages shows us that moderation can take time, sometimes a day or more, and that the date on any post is based upon the date of moderation, not when the post was actually written, we should take into account changes in situations between the last moderated posting and the next.

We go on assumptions that responses have not actually occurred, when they may very well have.

Experience shows us also that identification of "Sound Off!" posts are not automatic, unlike the comments under individual articles. One must manually identify themselves in "Sound Off!".

With that said, accusing ANY poster of not identifying themselves, for WHATEVER reason, as being a coward or anything similar is basically accusing ALL posters of same. And claiming individuals might be hiding behind a computer when commenting on issues is rather rediculous considering we are ALL at a computer making our comments and views known, whether we identify ourselves or not.

Additionally, arguments about meeting face to face to make comments shows additional attitudes of a desire to use something other than the arguments themselves, as the apparent need to be physically present to intimidate others into silence is very much implied. And suppose you encountered an individual who had difficulty speaking? Would you then declare victory for your argument because the individual had difficulty speaking, but had expressed themselves in writing?

The demand to meet face to face to discuss an issue when the issue can be discussed quite readily in writing simply makes no logical sense. But then, some also feel their argument to be so weak that it actually needs a large number of individuals backing up that weak argument so claim a "victory". Perhaps that is why "majority" means so much to them.

Be that as it may, I have stated my points in various posts, including a few which have yet to be moderated and posted, as many of our posts are in such a state of stasis. I have already counterargued the points of "out of towner". I have argued the point that there is no justification for a significant number of individuals to appear for one side or the other.

While, unlike some, I do not have contact with council in places of privacy or to contact them in private, a form of "Ex Parte", to discuss issues alone with them, I have no need to. I have publicized my views, they are not secret. I cannot attend the public meeting because I am an out-of-towner (and any complain in those regards have already been counterargued), and am not able to make the trip. These issues, however, ARE important to me, regardless of their location, as has already been stated. And some of the issues in the manner in which some of the "support" side, and even the mayor, are acting, should ALSO be of concern to the whole community. If not, that's YOUR problem.

If the council wants my opinion, it is publically written for them to peruse and does not require the translation or interpretation of others.

Which brings us to another point. The complaint about the first post which I quoted. Apparently, so feel that the audience cannot make up their OWN minds as to what was said. Complaining about my view of the quote, while the quote itself is present, makes no logical sense as the audience, themselves, are capable of comparing the two views in that post and coming to their OWN conclusion.

Unless some are saying that the audience are NOT capable of analyzing the statements themselves.

The city attornies have, according to reports, stated that the situation is currently legal. There are confusing reports being presented as some have noted that compliance is only partial (as opposed to an all inclusive or all exclusive) compliance. They may wish to evaluate what occurred and what is expected to occur in the future and be certain that no appearance of bias towards ANY side can be preceived, for the sake of the appearance of the local government.

Since you feel it important (and since I have already counterargued your point), I am, I was.

Andrew Rhodes
Wilmington, NC
Contrary to possible misinformation, NOT a donating member of the FFRF OR any other organization for that matter. Only interested in consistency in law, government, and all aspects of society, among a great many other things.

1/16/12 (19)
Of course, if we're REALLY going to make the issue of "out-of-towners" a big deal, you have to, ultimately ask yourself this:

Are you willing to Card EVERYONE who attends the council meeting and forbid EVERYONE who is not from Ellwood from being at ANY council meeting, regardless of what side of any issue they may be on, whether said individual intends to speak or not?

Really, are you truly and honestly willing to follow through, without ANY bias, to do that?

Andrew Rhodes
Wilmington, NC

1/16/12 (20)
Ok Listen Up...Got this from a reliable source...We really got council members thinking now..Their already looking for alternative solutions for this...There waiting to see what happens at the council meeting on Monday 1/16/12 at 6:00pm at the municiple building...Contrary to popular beliefs from eric poole and Ellwood City.org this fight is not OVER...Come on people we need to flood the streets of Ellwood like we did the day they put the Nativity up...If you can you need to be there...The ffrf was there for the last couple meeting and seem to think they won but I as well as you kmow they will unless we fight...COME ON OUT AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT...

1/16/12 (21)
Since all this controversy about the nativity has been debated the thought of ," Render unto Caesar..." has been on my mind. I am sure there are alternative interpretations but to my understanding, this instructs me to keep governmental property apart from land of a church or private nature.

1/16/12 (22)
If you want to see a respectful private declaration of faith drive up Beechwood Blvd., especially in the evening. Besides this, those people truly live their faith while treating others well!

1/13/12 (01)
Reg: The nativity: The bottom line is the government needs to stay out of religion and let each town make there own decision based on the majority of the people's wishes . They do not live here so why should they have a say. I think each town is intelligent enough to make that decision.

1/13/12 (02)
Reg: 1/12/12/(13)
I think you should get a life instead of sitting by a window to catch the kids,so you can call the police. How boring you life must be. I suggest you go out in the community and do somewthing worth while to spend your time.

1/13/12 (03)
Ah!! A breath of fresh air on here Thursday! Belated happy birthday to Sgt. Rennels - and thank you for your service!

1/13/12 (04)
I was reading a post that we have 4 policeman at the basketball games. Go to a riverside game they have all teachers for your security and a retired teacher holding a rope to hog tie any one getting out of control. But i am sure that they are all donating their time!

1/13/12 (05)
Personally I do not care if the Creche is placed on the Municipal lawn or not. Truthfully now, how many of you actually even noticed the Creche before this uprising? You need to understand God is everywhere and he is in everything we do. You shouldn't need a symbol. Knowing this and understanding that you do not have to see him to believe in him is something no one can take from you. Hate the sin but love the sinner. The true magic is how, with one letter, that Atheist group got an entire town to set aside all their differences and come together to worship our Lord. If you have to have a winner or loser, I would say Christians 1 Atheists 0.

1/13/12 (06)
What is the name of the company that you work for?
Can you supply me with an address or perhaps somebody with whom I can contact to apply for a job?
Thanks!

Sorry I moved from Ellwood years ago. So that I could find a good job. Live in Silicon Valley where if you are an engineer, jobs area plenty. Education, education, education.

1/13/12 (07)

1/13/12 (08)
Your community may also want to take note that a number of "supporters" of the Nativity scene have also publically stated that they intend to take donations for a legal fund (at least the city won't financially be responsible for that one).

The problem is that at least one of the proposed legal groups they are considering is the Alliance Defense Fund. Feel free to research said group, however, once you do, ask yourselves if the community, if not the city, wants to be associated with an organization which is clearly recognized as a Hate Group by a number of watchdog groups, as you'll discover in your research if you don't limit your sources.

1/13/12 (09)

1/13/12 (10)
Why is it that you anti-nativity scene heathens didn't have the guts to appear at the meeting last Monday?

1/13/12 (11)

1/13/12 (12)
According to the Budget handed out 2 weeks ago by the Council, our police force costs up a little over 1 million, 8 hundred thousand dollars a year.

1/13/12 (13)
This is to the people who think the Nativity in Ellwood City is illegal...We have several lawyers say the Christmas Display at the munciple building is in leagal perameters of the 1st amendment..The display is being challenged by the freedom of relgion foundation based in Wisconsin..If we let them force us to move this Nativity now whats next Christmas in the park, the kids Christmas concert at school..There is nothing illegal about what the Mayor of Ellwood City is doing..Check the laws yourself or show up at the council meeting monday 1/16/12 at 6pm. and find out for yourselves.

1/13/12 (14)
When you call young people riff raff and imply their parents aren't acting appropriately, please remember the old saying, "When you point out a person's flaws there are four fingers pointing back at you."

1/13/12 (15)
There were two dogs found 1/11/12 at Kwik Fill on RT65 (By Christys) One was a Beagle Mix and the other was a fawn colored Chihuahua. If anyone as any information that could lead to them going home please email me at lloccisano@verizon.net or call 724-920-2333! thank you. These animals are not being given away, they need to go back to the rightful owners.

1/13/12 (16)
The person(s) who want to bring a lawsuit about the Nativity is either a fool for 1) wasting money on a decision already made by the US Supreme Court 2) has an unbelievable ego, and/or 3) loves to be in front of a TV camera.

1/13/12 (17)
Maybe this Tebow "controversy " would be avoided if Tebow prayed in private. To me it's more like pandering: See how righteous I am. Me and Jesus winning football games.

If he were Muslim, oh boy what a storm.... Don't even TRY to tell me there are no Muslim football players.

A stadium built with tax payer money has nothing to do with "religion" or lack thereof. The phrase should not be "church and state". It ought to be seperate RELIGION from government(al) operations.

1/13/12 (18)
No one could care less what religion Tebow is (it's all nonsense anyway). What's annoying is how he keeps trying to shove it in everyone's faces. And he is a bad quarterback. Fans want to watch football, not some ol' prayin' hack.

1/13/12 (19)
1/12/12(07) I find it funny how you callthe group of people in this town who i am sure live here and have the same rights as you a "MOB". These people have every right as we all do in this country to believe and do what they want within the law and i do not see where the law is being broken. You put this mans name on here so everyone can see who he is ( not that he has a problem with it i am sure, as he does speak on the news and at the council meetings about how he feels)but you my friend hide behind this site like a COWARD would do so no one knows who you are. You have the same rights as he does and you can go speak at the council meeting like he does and make you thought known like he does, but then how could you hide you cowardly face so no one can see who you are? If you have the guts to put this mans name on here and call the group against the moving of the nativity scene a mob then stand up, be bold and show your feelings in a public meeting, like the council meeting this Monday at 6:00 pm. Dont hide behind the site, come on out and tell the people of Ellwood City how you feel like he does. All you have to do is staate your name and address and say your thoughts. I am not sure how i personally feel about this issue yet so i attend these meeting to listen to both sides before i make a choice on the matter, maybe you should to before you put things on a site like this about people. Also i attended te first rally and meeting and this mob you talk about has been very respectful and kind to the council and the people at the meetings. The only trouble i seen at a meeting was started by a athiest man who was calling people names and trying to start trouble. Thank You for reading my post and i hope i offended no one!

1/12/12 (01)
to 1/11/12(15) Please button your lips about skateboarders. No one wants to keep hearing the bashing. Skateboarders are with us to stay!

1/12/12 (02)
Re: 1/11/12 (05)
What is the name of the company that you work for?
Can you supply me with an address or perhaps somebody with whom I can contact to apply for a job?
Thanks!

1/12/12 (03)
1-11-12 (06)
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People like you make me laugh. There is a big difference between people standing in the street holding crosses in support of the display of the birth of Christ and not demanding you be a believer in it. And people standing in the street holding someone's head in their hand because they refuse to believe in a religion that says, "believe as me or die". Get it???? You don't make me laugh, you make me sick.

1/12/12 (04)
1/11/12 (12)
Reg:1/10/12/(1)
_____________
I do not hate my friend...I am sick and tired of kids trashing things and their parents sticking up for them. When I was a kid, I respected others property and not only that is If did do something shady, neighbors and friends of my parents would clue them in on my wrong doing before I even made it home. That was the way it was. Lots of kids today are just punks and their parents are just as bad for sticking up for them rather than giving them a swift kick in the you know what.

1/12/12 (05)
Thank you council members for employing good sense and reason, and for not succumbing to the passions of the moment. Your solicitor provided you with good advice and you followed it, in face of the political posturing from other members of the borough government, some of whom are pious phonies. Fifty year old traditions die hard, but it's the constitution that protects us from the "tyranous majority. Now a new tradition can begin, a completely legal one.

1/12/12 (06)

1/12/12 (07)
RE: 1/11/12 (10)

So I see you found one of the liberal websites that post a few comments that are mostly taken out of context to support the liberal/progressive push of the last 100 years to expel God from everyones lives. May I say, not terribly impressive. If I thought you would actually look, I could post several quotes supporting the fact that the Founding Fathers not only believed that faith was absolutely necessary to our form of government, but in fact, that it was derived from a creator and it would not survive without the faith in a creator. I think you already know that though. (I have no doubt that your next argumet will be "you won't do it because you can't" no it is because I don't want to waste my time.) Clearly your mission is to remove religion from every aspect of this country so that the destruction that is currently underway will be complete. (If it is not your mission, you are merely a useful fool.) If people still have their religion they will be able to resist you and your ilk when the economy crashes, but without faith they will have nothing. I have faith that most people will see it and that you will fail.

1/12/12 (08)
RE: 1/11/12 (06)

Umm...what?! I think you are right, some people just don't get it....like you.

Are you actually equating a government run by a group of Islamic priests to a representative republic that puts up a decoration on a religious holiday and does not exclude other holiday decorations? Really? Does this sound a bit like comparing apples and sardines (or as far as you can get from apples) to anyone else?

Again, by displaying a manger you no one is prohibited from or making anyone practice any religion nor is it endorsing it. Are we endorsing Satanism or Paganism by decorating for Halloween? Clearly most people would say we are not. This is a ridiculous argument and so is the one being made against the manger. The only reason we have to even listen to it is because there is money behind it. If there was no threat of a lawsuit that the city cannot afford to fight (supposedly) the complaint would be dismissed as extremist right off the bat.

1/12/12 (09)
1/11/12 (11) Lets take up a donation to send Mr. Bill Kaszicki of West Elizabeth a thank you note for reminding our elected leaders of the consequences of a failed constitutional court case. Did the people who claimed to know attorneys who would fight the case for free, ask them if they would pay for the court costs and fees for the attorneys on the other side if Ellwood lost? Those fees and costs generally run into the high hundreds of thousands of dollars, and I would doubt that our borough insurance would bail us out of those claims. Thank you bold council persons for obeying the law and for keeping us from a financial disaster. We will remember your convictions and principles of following the law at election time. Hopefully reasonable people will conclude that you took the wise and correct course!!!

1/12/12 (10)
To all the people in E.C that are pro Nativity site being at the municipal bldg. Even if winning a court case that would allow you to erect the Nativity on government property,as long as secular decorations are displayed along side, you still lose! Placing a Santa ,a snowman, or whatever along side a Nativity negates the meaning of the season, and in my opinion is sacrilege! The city legal advisor,and some council, suggested putting the Nativity across the street where the plaza is to be, so do it up BIG! Build a platform,put up spotlights, have a choir singing,add items to the Nativity scene. So what if it's been at the same location for 50 yrs. change can sometimes be for the best. Those of you who insist on the municipal bldg. location are just plain STUBBORN!

1/12/12 (11)

1/12/12 (12)
1/9/12 (03)
Reg: 1/6/12/(2)

My liking or disliking a child has nothing to do with expecting them to have respect for the community in which they live. If it were any other child/children I would be offering the same photos but it isn't. There are a few hundred kids in that same area for Baseball season, I haven't witnessed a one cutting into the cement with their bat or spikes. So let me ask you this, should I be saying poor skateboarder kids have horrible parents for not teaching them this respect? If I do will you then write about me blaming the parents? Its a simple little case of accept its them and find a solution.

1/12/12 (13)
1/9/12 (07)
Don't you dare try selling it off as a lie because I live there, IK KNOW IT'S THEM!

Any normal person would phone the police. Why didn't you?

HAHA Thank you for your concerns with my well being. I can assure you I did call the police, I call them every time I see those kids on that cement with their boards. Mind you there are a lot of times they pass through without jumping on that cement and I don't say a word.

1/12/12 (14)
Sometimes my kid gets a chance to read this page ... so, just in case ... Happy, happy birthday, Sgt. Joshua Rennels!! You're finally 'in the states' for one of your birthdays, and DARN!! You're in the WRONG state! LOL! Oh well, a PA birthday will happen one day! Meanwhile, have a nice 'Sweet home, Alabama' birthday (snickers!! I know, my fault that you HATE that song!! snickering still! LOL!)and I'm hoping for a good day at Fort Benning! Happy birthday, son! Love from your ol' Mom.

1/12/12 (15)
Contrary to the intentional misinformation repeatedly presented by "supporters" of the Nativity scene:
1. Moving (not outright removal and not placed elsewhere) does NOT alter, in either a positive or negative way, one's beliefs, religious or otherwise.

2. Having ANY religious symbol or display at ANY time of the year on governmen property does not, in any magical way, make your beliefs any more meaningful.

3. A government body, at any level, that has a law, policy, and/or procedure that, upon request of representation of any community member, either is all inclusive or all exclusive, eliminates even the most basic appearance of bias on the part of the government body as ANY form of bias would imply the government body would be biased, ie corrupt, in ANY of its others activities.

4. According to reports, during at least the Christmas holiday, the religious Nativity display will be placed on private property, however, there is some confusion as to whether ONLY the Nativity is to be moved. Again, a logical solution is to have an all inclusive or all exclusive policy. Meaning that if one display is moved to private proerty, off government property, then ALL displays must be. To only move one or some but allow others on government property is not logical and, giving the benefit of the doubt, may have been an error on someone's part.

5. The argument some put forth that "out of towners" should stay out of the business of various cities, counties, and states, is illogical in that it is not much different than the arguments made by many states over a half century ago when various individuals and organizations proceeded to insert themselves into various unjust situations, situations which not only inolved communities but governments as well. Some were merely verbally and mentally attacked for their attempts to get involved. Others however... The point being that violations of ANY sort of the US Constitution, its Amendments, and the Human and Civil Rights of others, regardless of how large or small, should be the concern of EVERYONE because allowing some violations to occur based on arguments of "majority" versus "minority" means YOU could just as easily become a victim of that same argument and "justification".

6. According to some articles, the council has put the matter behind them and, though there needs to be the issue of clarification of the all inclusiona or all exclusion matter as mentioned above about what is and what is not to be moved, there is little point in appearing to the council as a mob to attempt either to intimidate the council into violating the law OR to intimidate the "minority" into silence through sheer mass of opponents to those "minorities". There are a number of individuals who have organized and are suggesting another mass appearance for the purpose of same. Indeed, many have suggested approaching council members outside of council meetings so that only THEIR views on the issue be heard, since, apparently, their arguments are too weak to stand up to scrutiny or debate. Apparently, they don't want any meeting between themselves and the council members to be public, which should raise some serious concerns for the council members.

Council and organizers of the council should set forth policy for such situations to prevent previous meetings from being overwhelmed. Issues to be put forth to the council in meeting should be limited to a maximum number of speakers, as representatives, and attendees on any side of the issue, to prevent the appearance that individuals on one side or the other intends to use mob intimidation OR to lock out any one side from expressing their views. Representatives should be able to offer written statements by others, but the appearance of a fair and equitable government body, the council, should be maintained.

1/12/12 (16)
1/9/12 (11)
Not only is the cement black from their wax, there are also chips and gashes from them.

Are you sure it wasn't when you fell and hit your head?

The absence of an intelligent reply tells me you will never understand self worth and pride. But hey, really funny sentence there. Good one, wow you really told me.

1/12/12 (17)
The mayor has, in fact, requested of certain supporters of violations to the US Constitution that they want a mob of over 400 individuals to show up, as to intimidate the "minority" into silence because the mayor supposedly has a new "plan" to further violate the US Constitution and its Amendments to promote the local governemnt granting special "respect" to a single religion, over all other religions and non-religious beliefs and ideals, making the local government questionable in ALL its activities and most likely corrupt from top to bottom.

"Mike Mundo Parisi

Listen up everyone....Just got off the phone with the Mayor...He has a PLAN that he's going to read to the council at the meeting Monday night...He wants at least 400 people at this council meeting...So here it is!!!Are you willing to support your Mayor or not...I AM.....He has a good plan and needs are support to get it pushed through....COME ON PEOPLE THIS MAY BE ARE LAST CHANCE!!!